2021/Pop-ups/Webmentions Beyond Webmention.io

 Webmentions Beyond Webmention.io  was a pop-up IndieWebCamp session in 2021.

Details

 * organizer(s) / facilitators:
 * Date: May 15, 2021 https://events.indieweb.org/2021/05/webmentions-beyond-webmention-io-zG4JpHhZShVA
 * Time: 11:00 AM Pacific
 * Etherpad: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/Beyond_Webmention.io (archived on 2021-05-21)
 * Watch:

Webmentions haven't really been revisited in some time (and with the advent of people leaning to Webmention.io). This is a chance to see what's been really wanted, what hasn't worked and where we can go with it.

Let's webmunch on the riddle of webmentions. How can we get more people hosting their own webmention sending, receiving, and validating?

How can we prevent Webmention.io from being the beginning and end of IndieWeb participants' use of webmentions?



Possible Topics of Discussion

 * Webmention-brainstorming
 * Status
 * Status Page - The purpose of a status page is to notify the sender as to whether the webmention succeeded or failed and why. Standardizing the format and encouraging more implementations to offer this feature would have several positive effects.
 * Status Query Results - Status could also be queried by a header
 * Optional callback in the webmention to indicate the outcome of processing
 * in theory, a 200 OK response is accepted, saved, can be seen, and a 202 is the accepted, queued, come back later
 * I wonder if webmention processors respect this
 * Retry recommendations.
 * Rate limiting on endpoints
 * Webmention permalinks
 * What to Store about Received Webmentions
 * What to Store about Sent Webmentions...or the failure thereof
 * Should All Types of Posts Send Webmentions?
 * Webmention and POSSE deduplication.

Interest
Add your +1 for interest in this topic:
 * undefined
 * undefined

Participants

 * (facilitator)
 * aka sparseMatrix
 * (david somers)
 * (david somers)
 * (david somers)

Jokes

 * "I want to tell a webmention joke. I know I'm the source, but I don't know who the target is yet..."
 * "I'll vouch for that joke."

Quotes

 * "webmentions are like the plywood you build a ship out of to carry your content on"
 * "Stop naming projects webmention"
 * "Sounds like you're looking for an ontology..."

Steps from Webmention to comment display

 * aaronpk: we should list all the steps involved: +1, something similar to the mf2 parsing prose algorithm for thorough webmention handling would probably ease implementation
 * 1. webmention verification
 * 2. what do you do with the page you found? mf2 parsing is normal
 * 2.a -> chance to do MF2, JF2, JSON-LD, etc or fb or twitter markup
 * Potentially also archive the HTML and HTTP headers for future reference or re-parsing
 * 3. take the mf2 and turn it. into a comment - wm.io does this in jf2 with massaging
 * angelo mf2util in python will do the work here too - is xray the equivalent?
 * jacky: granary.io is another tool for doing this
 * 4. storage - where do you put it?
 * Check against existing stored webmentions to determine if we’re updating or deleting a reply
 * 5. retrieval - client side, build process etc
 * 6. rendering - turning the retrived data into page content
 * 7. client storage - adding to receiver's site
 * webmention.io does 1-5
 * Would be great to have a thing that's straightforward to self-host, cf selfauth, where it's a PHP bundle you drop onto a server and it uses local database (incl. SQLite)

petermolnar:Could we look at having a comment using an oembed-style representation for a comment? Monocle/Quill does preview/reply context, built by the receiver, but OEmbed would produce the data on the sender's side, could then be embedded directly in the received

Granary.io mentioned as a service for converting one format to another

10 minute break here


 * jacky: this could belong in a social reader too - see the responses to your posts
 * mention.tech kinda works for this as the response pages are h-feeds - eg http://mention.tech/listmentions?target=https%3A%2F%2Ftumblelog.xyz


 * Who here is in an SSG? [5-7 hands]
 * Who'd be interested in working on a plugin for their SSG?
 * is working on one for 11ty
 * wants to build one for Publ but also wants to do a lot of other stuff with conceptual overlap (e.g. ActivityPub) so it's easy to procrastinate
 * chrisaldrich: could we nudge netlify into building a service to do this kind of storage
 * already a community-built plugin https://github.com/CodeFoodPixels/netlify-plugin-webmentions#readme (for sending)
 * Can we help to center the current implementations at https://indieweb.org/static_site_generator to encourage developers to build plugins for each of the bigger SSGs?
 * Can we help to center the current implementations at https://indieweb.org/static_site_generator to encourage developers to build plugins for each of the bigger SSGs?

There is this diagram:
 * https://indieweb.org/graphics#Illustrations_and_Sketch_Notes
 * https://www.kartikprabhu.com/articles/indieweb-love-blog ("non-technical" diagrams)

Put issues and thoughts in here:
 * https://github.com/indieweb/webmention-ecosystem

Join us via IndieWeb chat: https://indieweb.org/discuss

Discussion during the break

 * Hub examples: news.indieweb.org and indieweb.xyz could be used to aggregate content from various places around the web via Webmention.
 * Introductory article about Webmention: https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet/
 * Article about how to send your first webmention: https://aaronparecki.com/2018/06/30/11/your-first-webmention
 * Service that allows sending webmentions manually: https://telegraph.p3k.io/send-a-webmention
 * uses webmention.io + granary to generate an RSS feed of responses, to be notified of incoming mentions --

Posts

 * 2021-05-16 Host your own webmention receiver: Beyond webmention.io and static site integration
 * 2021-05-19 Webmention and Twitter
 * With this Brid.gy support, micro.blog should be a reasonable full service webmention client for SSGs.