#indiewebcamp 2014-10-18

2014-10-18 UTC
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tantek ben_thatmust: I see an h-entry right at the start here: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/10/17/1/this-explanation-makes-me-think-totp
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tantek and that's running php-mf2
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ben_thatmust_ yeah, i noticed that, is it not the same version?
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tantek who is running which version?
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ben_thatmust_ i'm using https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2.git
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tantek trunk?
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ben_thatmust_ master
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tantek well that sounds like you found a bug. I know pin13 is not updated that often.
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tantek I wonder what changes happened recently
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kylewm php > $mf = Mf2\fetch("https://kylewm.com/reply/2014/10/17/1/this-explanation-makes-me-think-totp");
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kylewm php > echo($mf['items'][0]['type'][0]);
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kylewm h-entry
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kylewm ?
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ben_thatmust_ oh weird... fetch() will get it find
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ben_thatmust_ fine*
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ben_thatmust_ but i use my own CURL and just pass the results to it and I don't get the h-entry
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ben_thatmust_ huh... i found it, My curl said to return the header
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ben_thatmust_ apparently that messed up the parsing
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GWG I have to get around to learning how to use that MF2 parsing library.
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Mark87 im working on my own php mf2 parser. My goal is to make it data-driven
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tantek Mark87 - what language?
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Mark87_ Tantek Php
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Mark87_ I'll make a project page about it after I upload it to gothic
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Mark87_ Github*
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tantek "gothic" - I like that. It sounds so "Cathedral" (as opposed to "Bazaar") ;)
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Mark87_ It could be a cool project name, assuming there's a tld where its not registered
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kylewm Mark87_: data-driven like XPath?
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Mark87_ Kylewm no data driven as in not hard coded for mf2, the information needed to parse mf2 is its own data that the parser reads to parse mf2
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tantek Mark87 - what's your motivation for a new parser instead of php-mf2?
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tantek (honestly curious)
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tantek (not questioning your decision)
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Mark87_ Personal project. I want to experiment with turning mf2 into a "context" similar to the concept in jsonld
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Mark87_ So I'm going to define my own "h-* format that contains properties useful in describing the makeup of any generic h-* object, hard code that one property into my parser, then if you feed it the URL of any page with that markup on it, it can learn to parse any microformat
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tantek but there shouldn't be anything to "learn" to parse any microformats2 usage.
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tantek I'm wondering what you think needs "learning"
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ben_thatmust_ https://ben.thatmustbe.me/post/2014/10/16/1/totp_and_you
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Mark87_ Any h-* object
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kylewm ben_thatmust_: \o/
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ben_thatmust_ vouches successfully receiving
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ben_thatmust_ i still need to auto-add those to the whitelist
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tantek Mark87 - they're all parsed the same way
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kylewm nice job showing the "Vouched" url there too, that will be useful for debugging
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tantek as defined in http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing
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ben_thatmust_ woohoo, i'm both sending and receiving vouches!
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tantek ben_thatmust++ ! nice !
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Loqi ben_thatmust has 3 karma
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tantek.com edited /Vouch (+247) "/* Ben Roberts */ sent and received" (view diff)
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Mark87_ Tantek part of my experiment is slightly restricting the available microformat expression. So its more pseudo-mf2 and probably will be for a while
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kylewm ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 28 karma
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tantek.com edited /Vouch (+75) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Vouched text" (view diff)
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tantek Mark87 - is this for your own personal website, or more a parser experiment?
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kylewm suspect it's related to his feed reader!
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kylewm s/suspect/I hope
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Loqi kylewm meant to say: I hope it's related to his feed reader!
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Mark87_ Tantek kylewm its all interrelated. Different expressions of a larger idea
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Mark87_ I would love feedback on my feed reader though. I'm tracking a few IRC users in it, and I am intending to implement more indie features like replies and indieauth!
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tantek neat! what's the name of your reader project?
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Mark87_ For lack of a better idea, I just call it Xirvir Feeds, pronounced 'server'
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tantek perhaps start a wiki page for it?
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tantek what is Xirvir?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Xirvir" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=Xirvir
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Mark87_ Just a .com domain that wasn't taken an a fancy way of spelling server
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Mark87_ Feeds.xirvir,com
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KevinMarks_ hm, thinking you could do an arbitrary json to mf2 converter
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KevinMarks_ like JSONtoXOXO
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KevinMarks_ though can you express a list easily in mf2?
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tantek KevinMarks: JSON doesn't distinguish ordered vs unordered right
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tantek ?
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KevinMarks_ JSON lists are ordered
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tantek as are uf2 property values - though this is more of a #microformats discussion
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Mark87_ I believe if u just put multiple identically named properties in an object it will be parsed into an aray
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tantek in source order
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Mark87_ There you go
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Mark87_ List
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KevinMarks_ object/dict keys aren't order preserved in json
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tantek but arrays are
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tantek.com edited /file-storage (+355) "criticism Command Line Configuration" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /file-storage (+2) "/* Command Line Configuration */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /file-storage (+22) "/* Command Line Configuration */ hosting" (view diff)
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GWG Okay, so my Syndication Links plugin, which adds boxes/icons for things you've POSSEd now has Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus, Instagram, Flickr, Youtube, LinkedIn, Tumblr, and other WordPress...
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GWG What am I missing now that adding is trivial?
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tantek.com edited /database-antipattern (+892) "/* Why discuss storage plumbing */ UX impact categories, example" (view diff)
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GWG is trying to get some things done before going away
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KartikPrabhu__ waves
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GWG Hello, KartikPrabhu__
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GWG What are you up to?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "you up to" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=you+up+to
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GWG Grr
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KartikPrabhu__ "what is" is leading to great Loqi trolling!
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GWG KartikPrabhu__: My question stands. What are you up to this evening?
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KartikPrabhu__ hi GWG, I am mostly upto more physics things since my computer died and I'm waiting on the replacement
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KartikPrabhu__ turns out science can be done on a blackboard. not the same with indieweb stuff
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rascul it can be done on a whiteboard
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rascul looks for a picture of vouch drawn on the whiteboard...
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GWG KartikPrabhu__: I've done it on a Chromebook and on a cell phone with a bluetooth keyboard
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KartikPrabhu__ not really! at some point you have to write code. I have the sketch of stuff to do already
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tantek.com edited /WebRTC (+263) "built-in WebRTC video chat coming to browsers" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu__ writing code on mobile is horrible, no good way to SSH or FTP upload files
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GWG KartikPrabhu__: It isn't my first choice
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rascul i can ssh/scp and all fine on my android
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KartikPrabhu__ tantek++ for capturing FAQ on /database-antipattern
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Loqi tantek has 104 karma
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KartikPrabhu__ rascul: I still do sketches and notes on paper but I like to write some code and iterate on it ASAP
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KartikPrabhu__ tantek: is there a good way to capture the idea that DBs are probably fine for advanced devs but not so much for beginners on that page?
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KartikPrabhu__ since I feel most opposition to /database-antipattern comes from people who really know how to use them?
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tantek.com created /you_up_to (+38) "r" (view diff)
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tantek KartikPrabhu: that is a good question
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tantek one way to approach that is to expand upon the definition of DBA Tax
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tantek perhaps the DBA Tax is annoying to developers, but possibly prohibitive to beginners
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tantek what is a DBA tax?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "DBA tax" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=DBA+tax
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/database-antipattern#DBA_tax
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tantek KartikPrabhu: perhaps create a subsection under "DBA tax" that captures the "especially taxing on beginners" problem?
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KartikPrabhu__ hmm good plan... will add to it soon as my thoughts about this crystallise enough
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tantek thanks KartikPrabhu
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GWG I'm working on a problem, if anyone has any perspective.
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GWG I want to improve the design of my reply contexts
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tantek GWG - you and me both :)
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GWG tantek: What have you been thinking? I
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tantek I wrote my thinking about reply context incremental design improvement here: http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context#Levels
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GWG I have been looking at known's display, kylewm, etc. and am trying to plan a better layout.
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tantek right now I like aaronpk's reply-contexts
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tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context-examples#Aaron_Parecki
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GWG I looked at his initially.
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GWG I have one problem
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GWG It is partly a design issue with how I implemented
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GWG I have three variables. URL, Title, and Quote.
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GWG I have some logic based on which are present.
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tantek interesting - if I were in that situation I would start sketching for each
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tantek with paper and pencil
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GWG I did, and put it up on my test site
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GWG But I want to redo it.
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GWG For one, I'd like to add profile photos where possible.
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GWG https://tiny.n9n.us/
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GWG You can see some of the different tests here
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tantek ah, these seem familiar, but updated
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tantek I really like what you've done - the design fits well with the rest of the site
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GWG If you look at the live site, https://david.shanske.com you'll see the same design
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GWG My intent now is to refine it
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GWG For example, the aaronpk example you shows a name as opposed to a title.
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tantek yes, there are many possibilities
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GWG tantek: I am also thinking about autopopulating
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kylewm anyone know how Known decides how long to make the permalink slug?
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kylewm they seem to be between 50 - 75ish characters
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KartikPrabhu__ maybe 50-75 with only full words?
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KartikPrabhu__ i want to do "full words" but don't know how
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kylewm KartikPrabhu__: this is how i do it https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/util.py#L249
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KartikPrabhu__ hmm neat trimming
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kylewm it actually trims to the full word *after* the length limit rather than before
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kylewm which could be annoying if you want it to be a certain length for some reason
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KartikPrabhu__ true
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GWG kylewm: Can I pull you into my current obsession?
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kylewm GWG: you can try, I'm not very good for design stuff
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GWG It is related to your site
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GWG You have 'in reply to' ___ in
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GWG How do you decide what is a person and what isn't?
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kylewm not quite following, if i'm able to find an author h-card, i assume person?
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kylewm or person-like author
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GWG Which is why I think I need to figure out some new parameters, then how to populate them. Which is not an aesthetic design problem. It's a structural one
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GWG I currently build for manual data entry, with an option to automate
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GWG So, kylewm, what data points do you hold on your site for what you are replying to?
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kylewm GWG: here's the Context class https://github.com/kylewm/redwind/blob/master/redwind/models.py#L393
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kylewm url is the url I entered, vs. permalink which is the discovered u-url
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GWG Do you have a link to your posting UI for this?
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kylewm https://kylewm.com/new/reply
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GWG kylewm: You just helped give me more to think about.
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kylewm great!
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GWG But it means adding more complexity
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kylewm oh :( complexity is bad
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kylewm https://twitter.com/hkokko/status/319113314368094208
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@hkokko "I hate code, and I want as little of it as possible in our product." – Jack Diederich (twitter.com/_/status/319113314368094208)
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GWG Well, if I decide to pull in data to add profile pictures and author info to responses, where do I store that?
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kylewm where do you store the title/url/quote now?
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kylewm and why not store the new thing in the same place
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GWG kylewm: Attached as post metadata
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GWG kylewm: That is one of two options.
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GWG kylewm: The other is to put profile information into the user data table as a user with no privileges.
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kylewm oh wow, that could be interesting
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kylewm do you know what acegiak does?
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GWG kylewm: acegiak is using the plugin I initiated.
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GWG Also, the problem of how a major change would affect my biggest user not me...but I haven't figured out what I'm doing yet anyway, so it isn't an issue yet
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kylewm is that biggest user ace?
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GWG kylewm: Yes. I believe more than myself in terms of post volume
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GWG kylewm: In your data structure, what is syndication for?
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acegiak so much post volume
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Loqi acegiak: GWG left you a message 5 days, 8 hours ago: How is that whitelist webmention plugin going?
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kylewm GWG: de-duplication, though I'm not sure I'm actually doing that anymore
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acegiak oh thats been backburnered during crunch time on amygdala
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GWG acegiak: amygdala?
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GWG acegiak: I was just studying kylewm's data structure in exploring the possibility of adding more data to the response structure.
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kylewm still trying to figure out what battlates is
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kylewm (i figured it out)
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@loicmathaud On my way to Day 2 at #bono14 to work on indieweb with @aaronpk and @adactio (twitter.com/_/status/523366394222891008)
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squeakytoy2 just curious, is there a standard way to define a location? countries have ISO-standards, such as US/USA. Does cities have that as well? hm
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squeakytoy2 or maybe thats impossible
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KartikPrabhu__ squeakytoy2: seems like no ISO standard codes or cities, but there is the airport codes by IATA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Air_Transport_Association_airport_code
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squeakytoy2 yea, airports wont help me, sorry :P
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squeakytoy2 but its okay
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KartikPrabhu__ why not just use the name then? it isn't unique though
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KartikPrabhu__ maybe you don't need it to be unique
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@the_Zieger Talking about microformats. #indieweb #bono14 #backtotheweb (twitter.com/_/status/523380689136533504)
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@marcthiele Day 2 of #bono14 kicking off with great Creator Units. Right now I’m in @adactio’s and @aaronpk’s unit about @indiewebcamp. #nueww #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/523381432425930752)
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@border_none RT @marcthiele: Day 2 of #bono14 kicking off with great Creator Units. Right now I’m in @adactio’s and @aaronpk’s unit about @indiewebcamp.… (twitter.com/_/status/523381487471980544)
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@the_Zieger Creator Unit about #indieweb at #bono14 @ Hausbrauerei Altstadthof http://instagram.com/p/uSUtytpoXh/ (twitter.com/_/status/523382600585723904)
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squeakytoy2 i love my new project, its making me so happy :D
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squeakytoy2 \o/
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cr link?
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squeaky ugh
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squeaky centralized nick services = evil
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squeakytoy2 warped, https://github.com/corgrath/squiso/blob/master/README.md <-- i just started thought, but i am really excited with the core idea
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squeakytoy2 i am going to dogfeed it as well
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squeakytoy2 food*
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@codepo8 So IndieWeb is just XFN reloaded? http://www.indiewebify.me/ - get domain, add microformats, sign in with something and connect. (twitter.com/_/status/523400407377534976)
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adactio.com edited /authorship (+592) "/* Use Cases */ Fallback to rel="icon" for author photo (as a last resort)" (view diff)
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@adactio @codepo8 That’s IndieAuth, yes. http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth but that’s just one small part. Other building blocks include http://indiewebcamp.com/posse (twitter.com/_/status/523403863517560832)
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adactio.com edited /authorship (+103) "/* Fallback to icon for photo */" (view diff)
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adactio.com edited /authorship (+85) "/* Fallback to icon for photo */ List examples" (view diff)
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squeakytoy2 Is "statuses" a good generic name instead of "tweets"?
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marcthiele "notes" maybe?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/adactio/523403863517560832/13860742 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/adactio/523403863517560832/13860742 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/posse (webmention)
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squeakytoy2 Notes makes more sense than statuses as an alternative word to tweets? hm
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/adactio/523403863517560832/16982848 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/adactio/523403863517560832/16982848 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/posse (webmention)
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@adactio Having fun with @aaronpk, helping @border_none attendees mark up their sites with rel="me" links, h-entry classes, and webmention endpoints. (twitter.com/_/status/523422754255949824)
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@the_Zieger Babysteps on webmentions with @webrocker. And it's working. \o/ #bono14 https://twitter.com/the_Zieger/status/523424590945849345/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/523424590945849345)
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@kaeff Is there a self-hosted alternative to data reduction proxies? Would it even make sense? https://developer.chrome.com/multidevice/data-compression #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/523432738309677056)
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Loqi Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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indieauth.christoffer.me created /squiso (+12) "Created page with "== Squiso =="" (view diff)
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indieauth.christoffer.me edited /squiso (+1798) "/* Squiso */" (view diff)
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squeakytoy2 oh wow, my changes to squiso gets posted here O_O
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squeakytoy2 im really bummed out there isnt a more persistent discussion platform in this community
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rascul persistent?
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@the_Zieger Aaron Parecki @aaronpk about vouch verification for webmention. #bono14 https://twitter.com/the_Zieger/status/523442224580014080/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/523442224580014080)
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indieauth.christoffer.me edited /squiso (+47) (view diff)
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squeakytoy2 yea, over time
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squeakytoy2 more deep discussions
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rascul there are logs dating back a few years http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC/logs
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squeakytoy2 chats are good for certain things, but not all
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squeakytoy2 we should create a reddit :]
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rascul hehe
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Loqi definitely
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@the_Zieger Everything about #indieweb #webmentions and #microformats can be found over on http://indiewebcamp.com (twitter.com/_/status/523443064699097089)
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rascul only if we can post to reddit from our own sites :)
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squeakytoy2 isnt that a bit extreme :P
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squeakytoy2 i mean, not even IRC is decentralized
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rascul well there is a reddit api that appears at first glance to support replies and new threads...
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rascul quit distracting me, i'm trying to work on my site!
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squeakytoy2 it was a serious suggestion tho, we need some kind of a discussion platform, imo
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rascul i'm quite happy with irc, but some others might have some interesting points about discussion platforms
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rascul i recall seeing similar topics in here a few times, anyway
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squeakytoy2 well, lets say we create mf3, thats not really suitable with a real time chat
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fiatjaf I think reddit is a terrible discussion platform.
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fiatjaf email groups are worse.
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fiatjaf with two days following the chats here I've seen how much these people take the things seriously, use the chat for saying important things and then referencing/complementing the indiewebcamp wiki with this info
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fiatjaf they even give karma to each other based on what is said on the chat.
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rascul fiatjaf++
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Loqi fiatjaf has 2 karma
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fiatjaf 8)
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aaronpk fiatjaf++
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Loqi fiatjaf has 3 karma
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pdurbin is Discourse better?
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@b_eidenschink More diving into the IndieWeb ecosystem http://www.eidenschink.eu/2014/10/actual-work-creatorunit-bordernone-nuernberg.html (twitter.com/_/status/523450404944621568)
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@webrocker [^blog] Fiddlin with the indie webs… http://www.webrocker.de/2014/10/18/babysteps-in-indieweb-pt3/ (twitter.com/_/status/523451023005069314)
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aaronpk we have been doing just fine with IRC and the wiki, there is certainly no need for another platform for discussion
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Mark87_ I think you're forgetting the most important discussion platform of all: our personal websites!
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aaronpk :D
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Mark87_ Although lets say I wanted to post a link, title, and some text similar to reddit. What microformat should I use to signal that its a different kind of post than a post that must happens to contains that link. IE, th post is about that link. Or is that even a meaningful distinction.
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Mark87_ s/must/just
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Loqi Mark87_ meant to say: Although lets say I wanted to post a link, title, and some text similar to reddit. What microformat should I use to signal that its a different kind of post than a post that just happens to contains that link. IE, th post is about that link. Or is that even a meaningful distinction.
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aaronpk kind of like a bookmark?
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Mark87_ Sure
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Mark87_ Except maybe its open to doscussion, not just bookmarked into some dark list
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aaronpk check out what I'm doing, I think a couple other people looked at the markup http://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks/2014/10/17/1/
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aaronpk my post as a URL of its own, so you can comment on it
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aaronpk inside is a "bookmark" property which is an h-cite object containing the page's title, url, and optionally an excerpt
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pdurbin yeah, I love IRC for discussion, especially with logging by Loqi
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aaronpk http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fbookmarks%2F2014%2F10%2F17%2F1%2F
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pdurbin aaronpk: that reminds me, when one links to a particular line in the logs, you see a few lines of context, but what if this were configurable with URL parameters? Like grep -C10 or grep -B3 -A12.
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aaronpk oo
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aaronpk sure that'd be cool
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pdurbin because right now it's hard for me to link to a full conversation
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aaronpk right
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Mark87_ Aaronpk++ very cool. Do you save all your bookmarks into a list along the links of delicious or instapaper or pocket for later reading? Or is there some differentiation, where some types of bookmarks are saved into a list and others are just treated as posts in their own right?
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Loqi Aaronpk has 586 karma
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Mark87_ lines of*
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aaronpk Mark87_: i tag them, so they show up when looking at my tag pages
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pdurbin I don't have this problem with my IRC logging bot because I get a full page at a time: http://irclog.greptilian.com/rest/2014-10-15#i_80271 for example
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aaronpk pdurbin: there's also the hash sign links which link to the full page with a fragment
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-18#t1413637557181
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pdurbin oh! perfect!
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aaronpk I do like the other idea tho
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pdurbin I thought you had taken that away.
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rascul curl --silent http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-18 | grep -B10 "you see a few lines of context"
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aaronpk nope, just a smaller link target :)
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rascul pdurbin ^^ ;)
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aaronpk rascul++
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Loqi rascul has 26 karma
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@bindthis Thanks, @aaronpk for the Webmentions.io account. Now testing brid.gy http://blog.bindthis.cc/2014/10/18/webmentions.html (twitter.com/_/status/523461351520624640)
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pdurbin aaronpk: the new open source node.js version of Loqi does all this too?
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Loqi grins profusely
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aaronpk yeah basically the new version of loqi is a new irc core with a bunch of the same ancient php logic
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aaronpk but a bunch of other services can be added without tweaking the core now
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@loicmathaud @bastianallgeier and btw we could have talked about WebMentions in @getkirby ;) @border_none @laurakalbag (twitter.com/_/status/523462455108706305)
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@border_none RT @loicmathaud: @bastianallgeier and btw we could have talked about WebMentions in @getkirby ;) @border_none @laurakalbag (twitter.com/_/status/523462538957443072)
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fiatjaf pdurbin: maybe better, but I haven't used it and don't love it also. I think this IRC chat, the way you conduct it, is very good.
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jonnybarnes is Loqi open source?
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jonnybarnes things take so long to compile on my MacBook 😞
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ben_thatmust hey all
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rascul who is Loqi?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Loqi.me
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rascul what is Loqi?
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Loqi Loqi is a friendly and useful bot present in the #indiewebcamp IRC channel and other channels http://indiewebcamp.com/Loqi
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ShaneHudson Bumped into Calum Ryan today :) He is working on getting POSSE working on his site
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Postly (-8) "/* Current Features */ send and receiving with vouch" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me edited /Postly (+1) "/* =Searching for a domain to use for a vouch */" (view diff)
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squeakytoy2 so what did we agree on was a better generic term than Twitter's "tweets"? timeline, statuses, activities or notes?
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ShaneHudson squeakytoy2: I think most of us use 'notes' on our sites
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ShaneHudson I have notes as a subtype of Post. And comments/webmentions as subtypes of Interaction (which would include mentions, retweets etc)
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neuro` Publify uses notes as well
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squeakytoy2 so, who wants to give feedback on my project idea? This is my proof of concept viewer for a uniformed public data structure; https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8183146/temp/squiso_viewer/index.html
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squeakytoy2 the idea is, if you create and host your own data, stored in a json file, you help create a well structured network: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8183146/temp/squiso_viewer/corgrath/corgrath.json
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pdurbin fiatjaf: what don't you like about Discourse? (just curious)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es edited /IRC_People (+58) "/* Nicknames */" (view diff)
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@tmgeary . @jimgroom : http://indiewebcamp.com as a movement to take more responsibility of the spaces and data you publish #OpenVA (twitter.com/_/status/523499527568101376)
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fiatjaf.alhur.es created /User:Fiatjaf.alhur.es (+127) "Created page with "[http://fiatjaf.alhur.es Giovanni T. Parra] is an economist, anarchist, conservative, olavete, programmer from Lagoa Santa, MG."" (view diff)
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@ARWalz Mention of http://indiewebcamp.com -- Idealogically parallel to #OpenAccess movement? http://indiewebcamp.com #openva (twitter.com/_/status/523499872407007232)
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fiatjaf pdurbin: I don't know it a lot, I like it, it is the better forum software out there, I think
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fiatjaf pdurbin: but it is too heavy, slow, has too much information
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fiatjaf I don't know. I can change that opinion. don't take me serious.
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kylewm squeakytoy2: your prototype looks cool. just a heads up: being based on client-side templates, you would have some difficulty interoperating with indieweb protocols like indieauth and webmention
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kylewm squeakytoy2: but if that is not your goal, that's fine :)
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pdurbin fiatjaf: ok, I won't :)
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squeakytoy2 kylewm, not really my goal, i am just experimenting with this idea
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squeakytoy2 but its an interesting idea
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snarfed nice start, squeakytoy2!
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snarfed glad you're excited
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squeakytoy2 i just wish you could earn money on these stuff
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snarfed personally, i'd love to see a "related work" section (including e.g. asheville, ostatus, pants, maybe transmat.io), with descriptions of how they're similar and different, why squiso is needed, and maybe how they might interoperate
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snarfed heh. you can if they get big enough!
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squeakytoy2 how exactly? :<
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snarfed here's an example "related work" section: https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial#related-work
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snarfed plenty of companies pay people to work on open standards and open source
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squeakytoy2 no one got rich by inventing RSS
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snarfed ah. you said "pay me," not "get rich." :P
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snarfed (rather, you said "earn money," but still)
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squeakytoy2 as in, get some kind of income
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squeakytoy2 but thats the down side of creating open standards
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snarfed again, plenty of people earn income working on open standards/open source
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snarfed anyway. tangent. we should probably take it to #indiechat
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snarfed i'l push more for the related work section anyway :P
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squeakytoy2 whats indiechat? hm
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squeakytoy2 hm hm
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bret.io edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2014-285-webmention-vouch-drawing.png]]"" (view diff)
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bret.io edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:2014-285-webmention-vouch-drawing.png]]": Fixed text justification to match source image." (view diff)
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bret tantek__: what do you think about the changes made here? http://indiewebcamp.com/File:2014-285-webmention-vouch-drawing.png
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kylewm what is indiechat?
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Loqi #indiechat is an IRC channel on freenode.net for off-topic chat for the IndieWebCamp community http://indiewebcamp.com/indiechat
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bret (layout wise... I tried to fix the text justification)
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bret and by what do you think I mean, is it ready to swap out for the whiteboard drawing? on/
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bret s/on\//on \/vouch
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bret dang
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bret s@on/@on /vouch
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kylewm squeakytoy2: I'd encourage you to build this for your own use, not for the goal of "creating an open standard".
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squeakytoy2 kylewm, yea, but in that journey, I will build it so anyone can join
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kylewm squeakytoy2: that sounds pretty good :) too much focus on plumbing can take you the way of tent.io
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kylewm focus on users (yourself first) has a much greater chance of success
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squeakytoy2 too much focus on plumbing can take you the way of tent.io <-- you mean tent.io is bad?
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kylewm is anyone using tent.io?
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kylewm what is Tent.io?
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Loqi Tent.io is a project that is a "suite of distributed networking protocols" and alternative to OStatus http://indiewebcamp.com/Tent.io
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kylewm see that page for some discussion ^
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@withknown Webmention: an introduction for developers http://stream.withknown.com/2014/webmention-an-introduction-for-developers (twitter.com/_/status/523517879161872384)
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/webmention-an-introduction-for-developers linked to http://indiewebcamp.com (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/webmention-an-introduction-for-developers linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/rel-in-reply-to (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] http://stream.withknown.com/2014/webmention-an-introduction-for-developers linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/projects (webmention)
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@benwerd RT @withknown: Webmention: an introduction for developers http://stream.withknown.com/2014/webmention-an-introduction-for-developers (twitter.com/_/status/523518000209465344)
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@ihatemornings Webmention is cool: http://stream.withknown.com/2014/webmention-an-introduction-for-developers #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/523519773444149249)
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@kevinmarks “Webmention is a simple protocol that allows one website to notify another that it has ‘mentioned’ it” - @benwerd http://stream.withknown.com/2014/webmention-an-introduction-for-developers (twitter.com/_/status/523531510054264832)
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@davidmead Great intro to webmentions by @withknown #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/523531529578745856)
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@TheDavidJohnson RT @kevinmarks: “Webmention is a simple protocol that allows one website to notify another that it has ‘mentioned’ it” - @benwerd http://t… (twitter.com/_/status/523531789294649344)
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@jordan_web RT @kevinmarks: “Webmention is a simple protocol that allows one website to notify another that it has ‘mentioned’ it” - @benwerd http://t… (twitter.com/_/status/523532296310501376)
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KevinMarks Squeakytoy could your json presenting code work on the main version of aaronpk's site (made by parsing the microformats in the html)?
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/t/521329668457521152/966909907 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2014/Cambridge/Schedule (webmention)
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GWG working on reply context metadata
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@kevinmarks @Reynolds fair enough. You can make your WordPress blog join in the indieweb too: http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/523543654334341120)
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@kevinmarks @Reynolds if you have any questions about it, drop by http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (twitter.com/_/status/523545256357154816)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/523543654334341120/523545256357154816 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (webmention)
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GWG KevinMarks, I need to update that
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/523543654334341120/523544136667107328 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/523543654334341120/523545530279165953 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/comment/twitter/kevinmarks/523545256357154816/523545530279165953 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (webmention)
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hmans \o/
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GWG Hello, hmans
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hmans hey hey.
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/523545256357154816/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc (webmention)
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/like/twitter/kevinmarks/523543654334341120/11628 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress (webmention)
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hmans Is there a site that lets users without an indieweb presence post comments to indieweb'd posts, webmentioning their URLs?
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hmans Because if there isn't, I may end up building one (to allow the unenlightened to participate in #pants posts discussions more easily)
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GWG hmans, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?
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hmans Depends on the purpose.
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hmans Of course I like to encourage people to set up their own indieweb sites.
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hmans But I think you know that most people won't do that "just to post a comment".
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hmans Basically, what I'll be doing is verifying the email the user entered, then giving them their "own" subdomain named after a (unique) hash generated from the email. Comments posted will just be indieweb posts, so it's really not much different from an indieweb blog hosting thing, except there's a comment form that can be embededded remotely.
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Loqi [mention] http://www.epiphanydigest.com/2014/10/18/new-social-tool/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/ (webmention)
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GWG hmans, spam concerns. Will you support Vouch?
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hmans Sorry, what's Vouch?
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hmans Ah, I'm seeing it
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GWG hmans, recent development
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hmans Ah, Webmention DDOS protection, I see -- I'll look into it
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hmans I'll think about the potential spam issue.
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hmans I'm pretty sure that there are some good ways to fight it.
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GWG As someone who uses Indieweb ideas on WordPress, I have some ideas for how I want to solve it. But so far, I am not affected.
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hmans In #pants, I will eventually be applying the usual spam detection heuristics to all incoming webmentions. But I really only want to solve that problem once it actually becomes one.
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GWG hmans my plan was whitelisting?
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hmans #pants has social networking bits (you can follow people etc.), so it already makes some decisions based on that (eg. accepting all webmentions coming from domains you're following.) But it's also meant to support webmentions from other sources (minus spam, obviously.)
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hmans (#pants is my own indieweb implemention, in case you're confused. It's powering hmans.io et al)
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GWG It looks nice. I don't understand it though
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neuro` Looks like German
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KevinMarks Hmans aaronpk did something like that with his teacup site, making hosted posts if the micropub didn't work
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hmans GWG neuro`, I post most of my non-#pants stuff in my native language, yes. It's just my blog. :)
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GWG hmans, I know
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GWG KevinMarks, I wonder who has signed up for it so far.
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GWG Hi tantek
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tantek Good day GWG!
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aaronpk wow this is an interesting hashtag aggregator site http://seen.co/event/border-none-2014-nuremberg-germany-2014-4431
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tantek aaronpk - it follows the "ask for write permission up front" antipattern :(
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tantek when I try to "Create a new Seen" (e.g. for #indieweb) it asks me to sign in with Twitter
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GWG tantek, is there such a thing as a data structure antipattern?
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aaronpk oh darn
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aaronpk I didn't even try
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tantek and in the OAuth dialog "This application will be able to: … See who you follow, and follow new people. ; Update your profile. ; Post Tweets for you."
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tantek no good
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aaronpk sad
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tantek adactio especially rails on this
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tantek I think he may even have a long form blog post criticizing this, describing this antipattern
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aaronpk yeah it's awful
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tantek GWG - sort of. there is "architecture astronomy"
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aaronpk i have a post related to it, but I wouldn't call it "railing"
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tantek here we go: https://adactio.com/journal/5995
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tantek " it’s just plain rude to ask for write-access to my Twitter account before I’ve even started to use your service"
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aaronpk i called it "soft signup" http://aaronparecki.com/articles/2011/04/12/1/soft-signup-lower-the-barrier-to-entry
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GWG tantek, I am planning to redesign a data structure to be more extensible, but that may break things.
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tantek extensibility is often an antipattern
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tantek in that it puts theoretical future needs ahead of practical here and now needs
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tantek tl;dr: extensibility gets in the way of shipping.
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aaronpk whoa the twitter api docs got shinier https://dev.twitter.com/rest/public
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tantek back to the "premature write permissions" antipattern (feel free to suggest a new name)
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tantek this a/b comparison of screenshots is great: http://solita.tumblr.com/post/31458949716/this-is-rude-this-is-not-lets-be-polite
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aaronpk that's gonna be critical to get right for micropub apps
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aaronpk it's gonna be the same thing all over again
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tantek bingo
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tantek hence better that we document the common design error of the past
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tantek so that we don't waste time repeating it
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tantek since adactio has been talking about this most, aaronpk, can you ask him what he thinks of "premature write permissions antipattern"
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tantek ?
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tantek assuming you're still hanging out at that conference
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GWG tantek, if I had planned it out right the first time..
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tantek GWG, well laid plans are overrated
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GWG tantek, this is related to fixing my reply context. I need to store the context data.
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tantek yes that's a tough one, though not unlike storing comments IMO
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tantek all in that category of "other people's stuff that I show on my post(s)"
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aaronpk it's the same system in p3k, storing external links are treated the same regardless of what they are used for
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GWG I have an existing structure to work in.
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tantek GWG - to be fair - it's a hard problem
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tantek especially if you generalize it to "other people's stuff that I show on my post(s)", and then try to design for at least current (personal) scale, with maybe an order of magnitude of over-engineering
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snarfed tantek, aaronpk: re premature permissions, i think it's generally called incremental authorization
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tantek e.g. if you've gotten 50+ faves/retweets or likes on tweets/photos in various silo posts, design for storing 500+.
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snarfed both google and FB now advocate it
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snarfed https://developers.google.com/+/api/oauth#incremental-auth
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tantek snarfed - is it better to first document the "incremental auth pattern", rathern than the "premature write perms antipattern" ?
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GWG tantek that is metadata attached to the post
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snarfed tantek: got me. they seem very very similar. not sure it's worth distinguishing.
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snarfed https://developers.facebook.com/docs/facebook-login/checklist#context
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tantek GWG, and what happens if you happen to get 1000s, or 100k, or 1m+ faves/retweets?
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aaronpk in general I prefer framing things in the positive
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KevinMarks__ It's also auth at the point of use
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GWG I also contemplated making people who I reply to users on the WordPress site
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KevinMarks__ Originally, OAuth minimised options because that made it harder than the password antipattern
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tantek "users on the WordPress site" sounds almost like an equivalent of a "nicknames cache"
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KevinMarks__ And led to bounces
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tantek KevinMarks: OAuth itself was agnostic on options/perms I thought - whereas Twitter made specific decisions in their implementation - is that what you speak of?
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tantek and note that Flickr's BBAuth which predated and inspired OAuth, had already figured out that such levels of perms was the right solution
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GWG tantek, except WordPress already has an author table. I may just use it.
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tantek so it was a bit dumb of Twitter, others to have to relearn that lesson rather than simply re-using past lessons from others
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tantek GWG, part of what frustrated me with WordPress was this challenge you speak of, trying to retrofit into existing structures.
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tantek of course the flipside is when you do your own structures from scratch, it's a lot harder, and you may be less productive (especially at first)
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GWG tantek you can add your own as well.
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tantek and it takes a different level of (CS) design skills, than modifying existing structures.
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tantek GWG of course you can add your own, but now you have more complexity
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snarfed agreed on twitter reinventing oauth scopes. silly. it actually made it harder for me to do incremental auth/permissions in bridgy: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/258
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GWG tantek which is why I am thinking about simplest implementation.
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tantek aaronpk, I tend to prefer positive framing too, and only document the negative behaviors when there's bad behavior that's spreading (hence "antipattern" - a pattern that is spreading, even documented, that is bad)
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tantek the micropub use-case is a good start
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tantek what is incremental authorization?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "incremental authorization" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=incremental+authorization
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KevinMarks__ Now there is a Facebook/twitter auth fear - my sons wouldn't click the "connect to facebook" button in known for fear of what it might post
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tantek.com created /incremental_authorization (+325) "stub with dfn, see also" (view diff)
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tantek what is incremental auth
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "incremental auth" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=incremental+auth
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tantek.com created /incremental_auth (+39) "r" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__ Auth at the point of use is the instagram pattern - it asks you to connect with write permission when you have something to share, not in advance
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tantek KevinMarks: it predates IG
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tantek wow - view source on this Tumblr permalink http://solita.tumblr.com/post/31458949716/this-is-rude-this-is-not-lets-be-polite and there is all sorts of metajunk - so much metacrap - and NO SIGN OF THE DATE PUBLISHED
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aaronpk wow and two <!DOCTYPE> definitions
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aaronpk looks like tumblr injects some weird javascript password warning thing at the top
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tantek Tumblr may have some decent UI/UX/ visual design, but so much broken markup
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neuro` tantek: no, old articles make people leave your page (say marketers and trafic managers) and everythng older than a few days is considered as old.
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KevinMarks__ Probably, but instagram does the ux well
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tantek neuro`: who are these marketers/traffic managers and why do you afford them any credibility on anything?
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neuro` tantek: I don't, but apparently many people do
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tantek "many people do" = weasel words, which is effectively ignorable.
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KevinMarks__ Search engines do (over?) weight recency, but you don't full them by omitting dates
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KevinMarks__ s/full/fool/
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Loqi KevinMarks__ meant to say: Search engines do (over?) weight recency, but you don't fool them by omitting dates
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tantek neuro`: also, their logic is flawed. by writing *date-stamped* articles, you can then determine (by level of interest) which ones to write *updates* for. And once you are writing (perhaps yearly) updates on a topic, you become better known as a long term *expert* in that subject.
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aaronpk collected some posts from yesterday's talk! http://aaronparecki.com/collections/2014/10/17/1/indieweb-border-none
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tantek ok here goes aaronpk, I'm going to auth seen.co and see if it spams from my twitter...
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aaronpk oh boy
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aaronpk if I were them I'd add a 6-hour delay before I did anything shady with the twitter credentials
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tantek it made me create an account with a "Full name" and email address
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aaronpk ugh
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tantek they require email address confirmation before creating a "seen" - which is ridiculous as I already auth'd with Twitter
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aaronpk so what was the point of asking for your twitter authorization then
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tantek when you Create a Seen - you have to pick a Category for it
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tantek they misspelled Hackathon as Hackaton
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aaronpk so today's workshop went well!
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aaronpk got a bunch of people to comment on my test post from their websites! http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2014/10/18/1/bordernone
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aaronpk so that was fun
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tantek ok this is dumb, you can only create a "seen" for events of up to 4 days long
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aaronpk i'm off to bed. it's late and i'm exhausted. I look forwrad to reading the rest of the "Seen" review in the morning :)
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tantek so I'm creating one for the most recent indiewebcamp - let's see how this goes
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tantek here you go: http://seen.co/event/http-indiewebcamp.com-2014-cambridge-cambridge-ma-2014-5762
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tantek I made it start a day before the event, and end a day after, to hopefully capture more of the content before/after
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tantek despite entering a date range 2014-10-10..13, it's showing photos from long before that
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tantek and no tweets
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tantek.com edited /2014/Cambridge (+117) "/* Blog Posts */ attempt at a tag aggregation via seen.co" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /incremental_authorization (+1710) "document silo encouragement, good silo examples, bad silo examples" (view diff)
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tantek snarfed, thanks for the FB and G URLs re: inc auth - very much helped to write this page with a positive framing up front: http://indiewebcamp.com/incremental_authorization
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tantek I decided to document the antipattern just as a section inside, rather than give its own page: http://indiewebcamp.com/incremental_authorization#Premature_Write_Permissions_Antipattern
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tantek.com edited /incremental_authorization (+354) "add why section explaining relevance to indieweb" (view diff)
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tantek !tell adactio inspired by your blog post "Twitter Permissions" and recent discovery of yet another service (seen.co) that requested write perms up front, I wrote up this new page on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/incremental_authorization please review and edit/add to as you see fit!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek ok I blame aaronpk for indirectly pushing me over the edge into writing that up with the example of seen.co :P
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tantek.com edited /Micropub (+61) "see also incremental authorization, building blocks" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+44) "add building blocks, just after projects, for those looking to see what pieces you can use/build to make an indieweb site" (view diff)
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kylewm is there any interest in doing something like indie-config over micropub? thinking something like how you discover syndication targets, you could also discover web-action handlers via a GET request
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next indiewebcamp - is 2015 planning - which one will get planned first?" (view diff)
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tantek kylewm: I know we discussed the length of the Sidebar before, but I was a bit surprised to not be able to find building blocks there - so I added them
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tantek What do you think?
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tantek (may need to reload / refresh)
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tantek.com edited /next-iwc (-9) "next IWC - will be sometime in 2015 likely" (view diff)
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kylewm tantek: looks good to me, I'm surprised it wasn't there already too
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kylewm no problem with the length
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tantek it feels like we're seeing more new people show up that already have their own website, they don't need to be convinced "why", they don't need a "project" to install, they just want to know how to interoperate with IndieWeb sites
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tantek and I'm hoping that "Building Blocks" can be a good natural / discoverable entry point for such folks
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adactio Er... so after spending the afternoon with Aaron ...I appear to have a working micropub endpoint on my website.
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message on 10/16 at 6:12pm: since you're posting photos on your own site per http://indiewebcamp.com/photo#IndieWeb_Examples - how much of an itch is it for you to be able to tag the people in the photos per http://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag and even auto-POSSE those person-tags along with your photo?
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Loqi adactio: tantek left you a message 18 minutes ago: inspired by your blog post "Twitter Permissions" and recent discovery of yet another service (seen.co) that requested write perms up front, I wrote up this new page on the wiki: http://indiewebcamp.com/incremental_authorization please review and edit/add to as you see fit!
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@xtof_fr AI Websites That Design Themselves - #thegrid : le feedback #indieweb de @thierrymarianne http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=projects&oldid=14589#TheGrid - (twitter.com/_/status/523582617556226048)
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@thierrymarianne RT @xtof_fr: AI Websites That Design Themselves - #thegrid : le feedback #indieweb de @thierrymarianne http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=projects&oldid=14589#TheGrid - (twitter.com/_/status/523582837979873280)
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tantek.com created /2015/ (+772) "start with list of 2015 camps being planned, and how to start planning one in your city" (view diff)
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tantek ok sidebar updated
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tantek adactio++ for implementing a micropub endpoint on his website!
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Loqi adactio has 8 karma
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Loqi [mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/xtof_fr/523582617556226048/523582837979873280 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=projects&oldid=14589#TheGrid (webmention)
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tantek wonder why they linked to a specific version of /projects
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@sikkdays I really love @jeena's site & I hadn't realized he did a post on the way it works. https://jeena.net/indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/523585676508286976)
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jeena.net edited /Nginx (+2460) "Added rails + cache" (view diff)
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jeena.net edited /Nginx (+10) "/* Using Rails with a Nginx cache */ added my username" (view diff)
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jeena.net edited /Nginx (+17) "/* Using Rails with a Nginx cache */ fixed link to my username" (view diff)
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tantek adactio, enjoy your time in Germany!
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adactio tantek: danke!
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tantek if you get a chance, honestly interested in your opinions/feelings on how much of an itch is it for you to be able to tag the people in the photos per http://indiewebcamp.com/person-tag and even auto-POSSE those person-tags along with your photo to Flickr etc.
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tantek in *your photos posted on your site
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hmans tantek, where in Germany are you headed?
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KartikPrabhu__ hmans: did you mean something like this: https://kartikprabhu.com/connection/webmentionsender earlier ?
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Jeena I almost never post photos of people, and if I do then many of them don't want me even tag them on Facebook
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tantek hmans, I'm not. aaronpk and adactio just spoke at border:none
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KartikPrabhu__ no vouch support yet but hopefully soon
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hmans KartikPrabhu__, that's only half of the equation. Webmention sending + comment publishing.
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hmans tantek, woops, I misread that line. Too late in the evening...
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KartikPrabhu__ hmans: oh comments publishing is upto the individual site to handle. I don't want to do that
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hmans ...adactio: where in Germany are you headed? :)
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KartikPrabhu__ also #indiewebcamp please don't make a reddit ;)
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adactio hmans: I'm in Nürnberg—heading home tomorrow.
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hmans KartikPrabhu__, I know. I'm thinking of a site that allows non-indieweb enlightened users to comment on indieweb stories without going all in, giving them a familiar looking (eg. wordpress-like) form (name, email, comment).
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tantek KartikPrabhu: what? context?
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tantek hmans - you just described twitter.
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hmans tantek, are we talking about the Twitter that has a 140 character limit, doesn't send webmentions, uses no microformats, requiring everyone to use intermediates like bridgy?
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tantek right - that seems reasonable if your goal is to allow people to comment with minimal work - and many are already signed up on Twitter, making it even easier
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hmans favs, RTs and one sentence comments are not the discussion culture I'm looking for.
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hmans (#pants is supporting bridy just fine, btw)
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tantek perhaps explain the value of more than Twitter and less than an indieweb site that you're thinking of? and why a user would prefer that to "just" using Twitter, or "just" easily creating hosted site on withknown.com?
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hmans tantek, a lot of people perusing blogs want the one thing they know: a form asking them for their name, email address and the comment body.
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hmans Not because it's the best option, not because it's the easiest option
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hmans but simply because that is what they've been using for years.
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hmans It is the #1 requested feature by pretty much everyone using #pants so far and a lot of the people reading #pants sites.
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tantek hmm - I find the quality of comments made through such forms to be so low in general as not be worth providing such a UI. But perhaps you have experienced something different.
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KartikPrabhu__ tantek: context: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-10-18#t1413659685134
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tantek Maybe just make a local solution for your own site that we can learn from?
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hmans Twitter simply doesn't work for any type of meaningful discussion and feedback, and I'm pretty sure asking everyone to go to Known and sign up for a site there will lose most of them.
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hmans tantek, I'm building it. You were asking :)
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tantek ah, got it. thanks for clarifying. this is for your own site :)
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KartikPrabhu__ hmans: good luck with comment forms :)
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tantek hmans, you are brave :)
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hmans Maybe it's a culture thing. Blog comments are alive and kicking here in Germany.
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tantek across the internet in general they are a cesspool. youtube. news sites. etc.
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tantek perhaps in Germany email-form commenters are more civil, rational.
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KartikPrabhu__ !tell aaronpk maybe the lower footer on the beta version of chat logs could be stuck to browser window? easier to find context and reply directly without scrolling down
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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hmans Yeah, I'm aware of the discussion and the problems. I think commenting on a specialized blog is something entirely different from commenting on a Youtube video.
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KartikPrabhu__ also ol post on this: https://kartikprabhu.com/article/no-comment
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JohnDuh I think it’s a matter of size. Blog comments don’t scale well. Blog comments implemented in a way like reddit or hubski could work for larger blogs/sites/communities.
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hmans I love the (indieweb) idea of making people just publish their comments on their own (indieweb) domain and send a webmention, but that is an extremely high barrier for most people.
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JohnDuh (also, hi!)
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hmans Anyway, let me build that thing, then you'll get to pick it apart... :)~
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KartikPrabhu__ JohnDuh: hi!
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KartikPrabhu__ threaded comments are a navigation nightmare
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@rederer @mkalina auch indieweb wird, wenn es mal durchstarten sollte, algorithmen für die infomenge entwickeln müssen. selfhosting macht unterschied (twitter.com/_/status/523597173058179073)
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tantek !tell aaronpk it seems some browsers (ahem) redirect twtr.io URLs to www.twtr.io when offline, and then when resuming online, they retry the www.twtr.io URLs which then 404. Could you redirect permanent from www.twtr.io to twtr.io?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell aaronpk on second thought, keep returning 404 from www.twtr.io. I'm going to file a Firefox bug on this. This is dumb behavior in the browser and I'll use twtr.io as an example of why the browser shouldn't be "sticky" to the www.* version of a URL.
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KartikPrabhu__ !tell benwerd: seems known picked up the wrong content on this mention: http://stream.withknown.com/2014/webmention-an-introduction-for-developers##My+friends+at+Ortiz
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@mkalina RT @rederer: @mkalina auch indieweb wird, wenn es mal durchstarten sollte, algorithmen für die infomenge entwickeln müssen. selfhosting mac… (twitter.com/_/status/523600106516647936)
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@elfpavlik .@xtof_fr, awesomeEvent: #bono14 + excellent #IndieWeb workshop with {@aaronpk @adactio}++ vm.online(@as250).then(elf.enable['#WebMention']) (twitter.com/_/status/523601529782407168)
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