#indiewebcamp 2016-05-30

2016-05-30 UTC
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willnorris miklb: which jekyll plugin were you referring to earlier for webmentions?
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Loqi willnorris: kylewm left you a message 1 day, 10 hours ago: https://mf2.kylewm.com is working now http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-28/line/1464446907941
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miklb willnorris Aaron Gustfason's webmention.io plugin for jekyll
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miklb https://github.com/aarongustafson/jekyll-webmention_io
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miklb I still parts of it to build a cache of sent links and the rakefile to send mentions
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miklb s/still/still use/
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Loqi miklb meant to say: I still use parts of it to build a cache of sent links and the rakefile to send mentions
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aaronpk o.O https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/29/15/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Testing the first webmention.rocks receiver test
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bear hmm, why is the receiver test not letting me log in
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aaronpk what's it say?
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bear state is not "state of the art"
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aaronpk wait what
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aaronpk before I write any more of the actual tests i'd love to get feedback on whether this general approach is helpful
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bear trying it again to get more info
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bear "Invalid State
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bear The state parameter provided did not match the state at the start of authorization. You will need to start the login process again."
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aaronpk oh i think that's my fault
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bear :) - that's why we test
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aaronpk try again
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bear k
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bear worked!
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aaronpk woo
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aaronpk right now the results are not publicly reported anywhere, but it's still hopefully a useful debugging tool
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bear yea, it found a bug in my recent changes...
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aaronpk already?
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aaronpk it's not supposed to be a very difficult test
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bear I was working on the code to handle more events
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bear so it's all fresh and untested
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aaronpk gotta run! feel free to leave feedback :)
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bear thanks!
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[shaners] I just learned about this. Use Slack as a blog editor.
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[shaners] http://teambl.es/
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miklb wonder if they can use it to fix the typo on that page :-)
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[kevinmarks] I think that's more that English isn't their first language
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miklb perhaps, I saw a "past" when should say "post"
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bear !tell aaronpk found a couple more small bugs in my code, the test works fine. One question to, the source link when visited after the test causes another webmention to be sent, is that on purpose?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek good evening #indiewebcamp!
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GWG Good evening, tantek
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tantek just catching up on logs GWG
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tantek what is Amazon
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Loqi Amazon sells various products and services, in particular several hosting services like S3 and EC2 that may be used for various indieweb site features, as well as a review post silo https://indiewebcamp.com/amazon
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tantek.com edited /Amazon (+188) "Brainstorming / POSSE wishlist" (view diff)
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tantek what is Genericons?
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Loqi Genericons is an icon font set created by Automattic and popular with WordPress themes https://indiewebcamp.com/Genericons
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tantek nice
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tantek quiet day
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GWG Often.
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GWG Calm before storm
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tantek.com edited /silo-quits (+439) "/* Silo quitters 2016 */ Tim Burks app.net" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme been slowly improving UI on mobilepub
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tantek aaronpk++ for https://aaronparecki.com/2016/05/29/15/ - nice work!
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Loqi aaronpk has 144 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme tests his site against webmention.rocks ..i scored a 13 out of 21
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tantek sending?
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ben_thatmustbeme yes, i haven't dug it on it yet, but its probably all just issues recognizing the endpoint in various situations
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tantek yes a bunch of us spent time passing all of the sending tests a few weeks ago during IWC Düsseldorf. definitely some neat edge cases. I even had to push an update to the library/functions I wrote to help with endpoint discovery!
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Loqi [indieweb] "WeeklyUpdates/2016-05-30" by Alexandra.lucinet https://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=WeeklyUpdates/2016-05-30&diff=1134900&oldid=1134840
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@WuselDusel83 How To: Mehr Kommentare im Blog mit WebMentions. Comments von Facebook, Twitter & Co.… http://blog.kallerhoff.org/2016/05/30/wordpress-mehr-kommentare-blog-mit-webmentions/ https://twitter.com/WuselDusel83/status/737163115473702913/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/737163115473702913)
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@supergraf RT @WuselDusel83 How To: Mehr Kommentare im Blog mit WebMentions. Comments von Facebook, Twitter & Co.… http://blog.kallerhoff.org/2016/05/30/wordpress-mehr-kommentare-blog-mit-webmentions/ https://twitter.com/WuselDusel83/status/737163115473702913/photo/1 (twitter.com/_/status/737166325928341504)
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Zegnat Good morning
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tantek And about to say good night!
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Loqi night night
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vanderven.se martijn edited /OpenWeb_Icons (+366) "Wikify it." (view diff)
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Zegnat Good night tantek
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Loqi sleep tight!
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vanderven.se martijn created /Simple_Icons (+355) "Adding page after discussion on IRC." (view diff)
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vanderven.se martijn edited /social_media_icon_set (-24) "Move the iconsets with their own pages to Examples." (view diff)
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julieannenoying.com edited /User:Julieannenoying.com (+2) "/* Juliane Schütz */" (view diff)
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GWG Morning
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aaronpk good morning!
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Loqi aaronpk: bear left you a message 12 hours, 32 minutes ago: found a couple more small bugs in my code, the test works fine. One question to, the source link when visited after the test causes another webmention to be sent, is that on purpose? http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-29/line/1464574001069
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GWG Making preparations, aaronpk?
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aaronpk bear: thanks! I do want you to be *able* to run the test again, since I assume people will want to retry after making a change to their code, but it's probably not right to have it automatically run on refresh
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aaronpk GWG: yes! just days away now
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GWG aaronpk: Excited?
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aaronpk quite
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GWG Ditto.
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@dissolve333 Hoping to have it mobilepub ready for someone to demo in my place next week at #indiewebcamp (https://ben.thatmustbe.me/note/2016/5/30/3/) (twitter.com/_/status/737306553837977600)
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rMdes bear, hello, are you around ? I'm looking for hints to get my dreamhost based hosting to always enforce HTTPS (htaccess)
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rMdes I have tested 2 different ways and they work for direct https access but doesn't when coming from HTTP
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kylewm ^ we think that the http -> https redirect is chaining together with a rule to rewrite $1 to /index.php/?$1 and going one redirect too far
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@notenoughneon PURL: A Portable Content Store #indieweb http://notenoughneon.com/2016/5/29/purl-a-portable-content-store (twitter.com/_/status/737315007646576644)
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kylewm funny coincidence, I was just reading http://purl.org/syndication/thread/1.0
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kylewm (which I think is unrelated)
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[kevinmarks] “The raw output of MF2 parsers is inconvenient to work with, so an object model or helper library can make this easier. ” hm. Is this a Jf2 use case?
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aaronpk somewhat
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aaronpk the other part of the inconvenience comes from the various ways that the data you're actually trying to get can appear in the parsed result
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aaronpk such as the author h-card data, which is why we have /authorship
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[kevinmarks] I was thinking about this when I made the recipe template. What if as well as parsing the mf2 out, we could output the html as a template
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aaronpk the jf2 experiment of putting all nested data at the bottom as separate objects can help with that as then it means property values don't switch between being strings and objects
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[emmak] kevinmarks: the object model i'm using can be serialized to JSON that looks a lot like JF2
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[emmak] https://github.com/notenoughneon/mf-obj#serialize
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kylewm emmak: I cannot quite tell from that post, is there a separate HTML file somewhere that holds all your posts, or are you saying the rendered output is literally the datastore used the next time you render?
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[emmak] the rendered output is literally the data store
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kylewm ha
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aaronpk that's clever
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kylewm that's a new level of DRY I think
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aaronpk alright. made it so that you can re-run the test again if you want, but it shows the previous results if you've already run them.
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aaronpk anyone else want to give it a try? https://webmention.rocks/receive/1
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Loqi [Webmention Rocks!] Receiver Test #1
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aaronpk i'm going to work on the next two tests now https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.rocks/issues/9
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kylewm yep re-running works
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aaronpk and refreshing should show you the last result
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tantek.com edited /2016/NYC2 (+33) "see also planning" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2016/NYC2/Planning (+658) "stub with a few things to work on, outreach" (view diff)
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kylewm emmak: also I love the play on REPL
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[emmak] thanks! i had a hard time coming up with a name
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[kevinmarks] So parsing <span class ="p-animal">goat</span> gives {"animal":"goat"} and <span class ="p-animal">{{animal}} </span>
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tantek kevinmarks, perhaps avoid anything overlapping too much with species ;)
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tantek (especially in artificial examples)
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[kevinmarks] Sorry, old wounds
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[kevinmarks] The recipe example is better
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[kevinmarks] http://www.unmung.com/indiecard?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Ffood%2Frecipes%2Fsweet_onions_with_lentil_01078
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[kevinmarks] Where the output parses to the same rhing
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[kevinmarks] What is best practice in templates that handle varying numbers of repeated items?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "best practice in templates that handle varying numbers of repeated items" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10MV
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[kevinmarks] No, that's OK loqi
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Loqi woot!
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tantek what is a template?
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Loqi A template is a file used to generate a page https://indiewebcamp.com/template
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tantek ^^^ start there?
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aaronpk I just used the concepts in http://hackflow.com/blog/2015/03/08/boiling-react-down-to-few-lines-in-jquery/ on the second webmention.rocks test and it helped keep this code pretty clean!
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Loqi [Alexander Schepanovski] Boiling React Down to a Few Lines in jQuery
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aaronpk test #2 is live!
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tantek woot!
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Loqi giggles
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tantek all this webmention.rocks progress is making me want to finish getting updates/deletes working today and then at least come up with a strategy for implementing receiving / displaying responses (which I have a feeling is going to cause a lot of wiki editing)
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tantek has too much to do before IWS! o.O
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loqi.me created /archlinux (+17) "prompted by tantek and dfn added by tantek" (view diff)
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GWG I keep hoping Pfefferle will merge my commits soon.
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tantek GWG, email him. If he doesn't merge by Wednesday then I say it is time for you to deploy a fork so we can move forward with people at IWS
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tantek that's the open source way, if a project lead/deployer drops the ball for too long, it is the responsibility of the next most active / responsible person to just fork and ship so the project stays alive
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miklb tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 295 karma
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GWG I just respect him so much and I think I need someone to review code other than me.
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tantek GWG, also give him a public heads-up on Twitter
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@mjathols RT https://twitter.com/OnMyKindle1/status/736630057746206721 Thanks for the mention! Tammysdragonfly: #BookReviews OnMyKindle1 #OMKindle #BookBlogger #BookNerd #IndieAuth… (twitter.com/_/status/737339129076322304)
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tantek GWG, ask snarfed for a code review
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tantek helping him keep the project live is respectful, especially if you're fine with letting him take it over again if/when he returns, and you make that clear
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miklb GWG code review for security?
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tantek seriously, sometimes having someone help you out with such responsibility is a huge relief, and often in open source it is hard to ask for help
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GWG miklb, I also could use some user testing.
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GWG I reproduced a bunch of the webmention
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GWG endpoint discovery tests from webmentions.rock
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GWG As unit tests
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miklb GWG I would be happy to set up a local install to test.
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tantek GWG, how many webmention.rocks tests are you able to pass with your updated plugin?
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GWG tantek, see above comment.
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tantek GWG, "bunch of" = 10? 15? 21?
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GWG I think I was up to 15
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GWG It helped me find a variable I had inverted in my code.
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www.rmendes.net edited /Arch (+99) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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GWG Webmentions.rocks wouldn't because it couldn't tell me why it failed.
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GWG Unless I did debug.logging
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GWG miklb, I have a branch set up called spec.
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miklb GWG OK, remind me which plugin/repo?
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GWG My version is technically more secure than the stable one.
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GWG Let me paste the link.
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GWG https://github.com/dshanske/wordpress-webmention
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GWG Look at the spec fork.
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GWG branch, not fork, excuse me.
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GWG But I have a possibly good reason why Pfefferle might have separated webmentions from the enhanced processing.
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miklb sure. Got it.
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www.rmendes.net edited /User:Www.rmendes.net (+327) (view diff)
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GWG Processing with php mf2 requires a higher version of PHP then WordPress does.
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miklb gotta run some errands, but will start playing with it later. Maybe I'll spin up a little VPS so I can actually test sending/receiving.
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[kevinmarks] Is that something that php mf2 could change? What is the specific dependency?
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aaronpk the discussion is here https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/101
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GWG KevinMarks, been there. Basically, namespaces is the difference.
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www.rmendes.net edited /Arch (-99) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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GWG I think the other issue of short array notation was addressed.
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tantek namespaces--
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Loqi namespaces has -5 karma
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GWG As for the parse_url issue, WordPress solved that internally with a wrapper.
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aaronpk namespaces are great. it means a library like php-mf2 can create a bunch of functions in its own namespace without risking colliding with other plugins.
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GWG I'm not criticizing them.
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aaronpk i know. tantek is.
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GWG I'm saying is they caused an issue for me.
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aaronpk i'm curious what wordpress' plans are for php version support. it looks like they recommend php 5.6 but will run all the way back to 5.2, and they explicitly discourage older versions of php.
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GWG aaronpk, I am looking at a discussion about bumping minimum to 5.3
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aaronpk wordpress?
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GWG Yes.
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aaronpk well that would solve the namespace issue since namespaces were added in 5.3
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GWG The argument is buried in here. https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/36335
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bear !tell rMdes with .htaccess the only way to get "always SSL" is using mod_rewrite: "RewriteCond %{SERVER_PORT} 80" and "RewriteRule ^(.*)$ https://foo.bar/$1 [R,L]" -- these have to be at the top to prevent your other rules from being chained
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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rMdes thanks bear i'll try to implement your suggestion, the guys at dreamhost told me Known is "custom" CMS so they can't provide support #WTF
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Loqi rMdes: bear left you a message 1 minute ago: with .htaccess the only way to get "always SSL" is using mod_rewrite: "RewriteCond %{SERVER_PORT} 80" and "RewriteRule ^(.*)$ https://foo.bar/$1 [R,L]" -- these have to be at the top to prevent your other rules from being chained http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-30/line/1464631952485
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bear isn't there someone in IWC who works at dreamhost?
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rMdes dunno
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aaronpk yep, cleverdevil
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bear I would reach out to cleverdevil -- enforcing always on SSL seems like something they would enable as a best-practice
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aaronpk they should add a checkbox to redirect http to https where they let you add a letsencrypt cert
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bear gh
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bear ugh, cats ^^
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bear yea, doing that in the vhost config before it is proxied to you would be my preferred choice - then they can also allow HSTS
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bear (and other SSL friendly options)
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chromic.org created /User:Chromic.org (+196) "Add basic contact info for now" (view diff)
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chromic.org created /Template:chimo (+136) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline|https://avatars.chromic.org/avatar/1dfffb55178d6085935eafacf1a383a1}} [[User:Chromic.org|Chimo]]</span>"" (view diff)
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chromic.org edited /Arch (+12) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ add chimo" (view diff)
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[shaners] Indie Web summit is so soon! Everyone getting excited?
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GWG Yes. I said so earlier.
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[shaners] Gwg I'm still scrolling back in the logs
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aaronpk excited and scrambling to finish things
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Zegnat Excitingly wishing I was there
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bear hmm, so 404 being returned if the target URL is invalid is incorrect... /me goes to fix code
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bear ok - changed the code to return 400 now instead of 404 and i'm passing 2/2 for the webmention receiver tests
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aaronpk nice
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GWG Can webmentions exist without microformats?
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aaronpk sure
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bear IMO yes - all you need is to find the target href in the source URL
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GWG But how should they behave?
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aaronpk if my site doesn't find microformats then I just show the URL that linked to me in an "other mentions" section
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bear right - mf2 presence just adds more context/flavour to how you present the link
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bear s/link/webmention/
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Loqi bear meant to say: right - mf2 presence just adds more context/flavour to how you present the webmention
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GWG It is more of a different issue.
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GWG I want to make some changes so that if it can't load php-mf2 due to compatibility issues, the current plugin won't refuse to activate. They will just degrade.
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bear what I mean by context is that it allows you the ability to show the webmention with more context
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aaronpk you can use the mf2 to "upgrade" a plain mention into something more meaningful such as a like or reply
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aaronpk but the default (either beacuse no mf2 is on the page, or the mf2 parser is not there) is just a mention
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bear right, so if the code doesn't find mf2 then it shows the webmention like a normal ping/trackback/wm
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GWG Well, I resist the idea of showing anything like a pingback shows in WordPress.
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bear I was just using that as a way to get across how "bare" of a webmention it could be
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GWG I prefer bear webmentions to bare webmentions.
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bear :P hahaha
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Loqi ahahahaha
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GWG I'd like to see more bear webmentions.
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bear yea, I need to post more conversational items to get webmention's flowing
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tantek lol at prefer bear webmentions to bare webmentions
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tantek I think aaronpk has the right idea in terms of "other mentions"
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tantek probably worth documenting in comments display
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tantek what is comments display?
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Loqi https://indiewebcamp.com/comments-display
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Zegnat What are bear webmentions?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "bear webmentions" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10MX
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Zegnat Someone please go make that page.
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Zegnat I am off for bed, have a good one everyone!
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bear :)
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aaronpk wow instagram has a secret api
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aaronpk i can get a JSON blob for a user profile
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aaronpk https://www.instagram.com/aaronpk/?__a=1
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GWG bear webmentions are webmentions sent or received by bear
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loqi.me created /bear_webmentions (+84) "prompted by Zegnat https://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2016-05-30/line/1464637637826 and dfn added by GWG" (view diff)
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Loqi ok
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snarfed aaronpk: i think it's the same json blob that's in the HTML and that bridgy/granary scrape
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aaronpk yeah i think so
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aaronpk a lot easier to just get JSON tho :)
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aaronpk was not looking forward to scraping that out of the HTML
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snarfed background in http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17373886/how-can-i-get-a-users-media-from-instagram-without-authenticating-as-a-user/33783840#33783840 and https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/665#issuecomment-221410380
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aaronpk whee hidden apis
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snarfed btw i added the caching to granary rest so feel free to hammer it
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aaronpk oh nice
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aaronpk so that thread links to the JSON feed for a given user
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aaronpk any reason I should go through granary vs just hitting the IG URL directly?
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snarfed granary converts to mf2, AS, etc
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snarfed if you ain't q m
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snarfed nice not to need multiple people to maintain that logic
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snarfed but up to you!
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snarfed up to you though!
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snarfed er, s/if you ain't q m//
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snarfed man the web irc ui is bad on mobile :/
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aaronpk oh, darn
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KartikPrabhu what is woodwind
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Loqi Woodwind is https://kylewm.com/photo.jpgKyle Mahan's minimalist open source indie reader https://indiewebcamp.com/Woodwind
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KartikPrabhu oops^ on the photo
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KartikPrabhu is looking up woodwind again because Feedly keeps making bad UI decisions
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miklb does woodwind support importing opml ?
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KartikPrabhu unknown
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miklb doesn't see an obvious way
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KartikPrabhu I also want to move my bookmarked things from Feedly to my site
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KartikPrabhu or as Feedly calls them "knowledge boards"!
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aaronparecki.com edited /Woodwind (+3) "rephrase to move photo" (view diff)
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kylewm Does not support opml, that's been an ER for a long time :/
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[kevinmarks] So if you wanted php mf2 in wp core it would need to be 5.2 compatible?
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miklb ER?
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[kevinmarks] I have some old opml to xoxo code somewhere
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kylewm Sorry, enhancement request
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[kevinmarks] What format does it import/export in at the moment?
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kylewm Nothing
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aaronpk darn, in order to fix ownyourgram i have to actually start storing photo URLs for everyone
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aaronpk it was kind of neat that before i could get away with not actually storing anything except the person's username and auth tokens
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kylewm KevinMarks: the main problem I had was it was hard to find an opml library that worked with Python 3
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aaronpk can't you just use an XML parser? i thought there wasn't much special about OPML
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kylewm That's true but was also the point where I decided it was more work than I wanted to put in on that particular day
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aaronpk :)
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tantek whoa secret instagram profile api
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tantek sees "external_url": "http://tantek.com" and wonders if that could be used for one-off Web Sign-in relmeauth!
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aaronpk yep! that's how ownyourgram authenticates your IG account now!
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tantek nice
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tantek what about indieauth.com? ;)
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aaronpk i suppose i could do that
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tantek (since IG has OAuth permissions for other apps)
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aaronpk oh, but I won't be able to authenticate you via the IG api since i won't be able to get an API key for indieauth.com
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tantek whoa that IG API has photo info even for a "private" account!
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snarfed guys , "secret" and "API" are maybe slightly overstatements here
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aaronpk lol
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snarfed that json has evidently been in their html for years afaict :P
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tantek snarfed, does it not surprise you that you can access private account info from it?
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aaronpk i think it doesn't show you anything you can't also see on the logged-out view of your profile
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tantek not true!
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snarfed right
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/uploads/Screen-Shot-2016-05-30-13-51-21.png
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tantek https://www.instagram.com/tantek/?__a=1 has direct URLs to jpgs
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aaronpk just your profile photo
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tantek oh wait, only when I'm logged in
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tantek interesting
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tantek cookie sharing
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aaronpk i'm sure that's what the IG iOS app is hitting to get profile information
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aaronpk well maybe not the iOS app as they might use their own documented API
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aaronpk but i found that URL by watching what the web interface loaded
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aaronpk so the web "app" is using it for sure
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snarfed but again, the same json is in the html itself, without? __a=1
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aaronpk not sure why the web app loads it then
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aaronpk but that's how i found it
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aaronpk what i really want is a JSON version of a single image
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snarfed aaronpk: similar json blob in picture pages
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snarfed granary handles it too
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aaronpk yeah, just not as nice as a separate json URL
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aaronpk that JSON blob is the only place the venue ID and person tags appear
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snarfed i can add it to granary's scraping if it's there. file an issue?
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aaronpk https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/92
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aaronpk 👍
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snarfed thanks!
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snarfed thanks!
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snarfed are the lat/lon coords important to oyg?
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aaronpk yeah, it sends those along with the location name, and is also used to set the timezone of the post
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aaronpk it looks like i'm actually going to be scraping instagram myself for this for now though, so no rush
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aaronpk just figured out how to find the JSON blob inside these HTML pages
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snarfed ok! np
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snarfed feel free to crib granary's logic, array keys and indices, etc :P
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aaronpk will do :)
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Loqi [indieweb] "WeeklyUpdates/2016-05-30" by Alexandra.lucinet https://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=WeeklyUpdates/2016-05-30&diff=1134900&oldid=1134899
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tantek !seen eschnou
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tantek hmm - thought Loqi supported thta
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Loqi yo
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tantek s/thta/that
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Loqi tantek meant to say: hmm - thought Loqi supported that
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[kevinmarks] So is /blogroll support the answer for woodwind?
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tantek sigh broken past examples
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tantek.com edited /comments-presentation (+542) "dfn, collapse IndieWeb Examples sections, move eschnou & sandeep to Past Examples, use archive.org link for old comment threads, research & add since dates" (view diff)
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tantek congrats aaronpk for displaying federated comments for just over 3 years, the longest to do so and keep them up! (since 2013-05-29) https://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#Aaron_Parecki
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tantek kevinmarks, what's the usecase you're worried about for woodwind?
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miklb GWG are there any other plugins I should install along with the webmentions plugin to fully test out IndieWeb in WP?
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miklb did install semantic linkbacks
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tantek miklb I'd say the more you can play the part of a "naive" user and provide feedback on https://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started_on_WordPress, the better
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tantek we know we can improve WordPress -> IndieWeb onboarding, and any help with that is greatly appreciated!
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tantek BTW - I know there are A LOT more of you on here that show indieweb comments on your posts, you should totally add yourself to https://indiewebcamp.com/comments-presentation#IndieWeb_Examples with the date of when you first started displaying comments from webmentions on your posts!
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miklb in that case, I should spin up a live WP site so I can fully test that process
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tantek !tell benwerd do you have any kind of native comment notification / approval dashboard? wondering how (numerous) spam native comments make it through e.g. http://werd.io/view/51c21299bed7de845e3302e4
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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GWG miklb: I'm sorry, I stepped away.
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GWG Semantic Linkbacks enhances webmentions/pingbacks using MF2. Webmentions by itself only does plain unenhanced ones.
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GWG It is a point of discussion
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miklb from a user standpoint, a second plugin doesn't make sense. But I'm setting up a live site and will treat setting up as best I can as someone new to IndieWeb (and WP for that matter)
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GWG miklb: pfefferle made the decision to split them before I joined the community. There were some practical reasons, but I'll agree it confuses people.
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GWG I would have rather kept them together and clarified in documentation and safety checks.
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miklb I'll preface this as all my opinion…
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miklb a user isn't going to care about plumbing/under-the-hood stuff. They are just going to want to receive webmentions and for them to look right on their posts
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miklb but let me get a live site up and I'll go through the steps currently available and outline my experience after.
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GWG miklb: I understand both points of view on the matter. I just think the split should have been to separate the functionality into files in the same plugin, not independent plugins.