#indiewebcamp 2016-02-20

2016-02-20 UTC
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KevinMarks I had a thought for sites like known and gnusocial that let you create accounts
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KevinMarks if you link from your site to another one with rel="me", and that one links back with rel="me"
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KevinMarks you can show a verified icon by that link
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KevinMarks so you're verifying the connection rather than the person
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tantek if you have a Known account or a Gnusocial account, you should not have to create an account on the other!
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KevinMarks I meant links to silos too
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tantek rather that building on that rel=me workaround for federation, we should actually finish solving the federation challenges between Known / Gnusocial
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tantek very different problem if half of that equation is a silo
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tantek worth considering as two very different use-cases
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KevinMarks so if you want to migrate from a silo to a gnusocial instance or a known instance, you lnk to it, link back and it shows a verifed badeg that you are the same person
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tantek I'm not sure why/how that's helpful or makes sense as a UX
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tantek if you want to migrate silo->known/gnusocial, makes sense to have a custom UI / OAuth flow to migrate all your stuff from the silo to your indieweb setup
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tantek none of that has anything to do with verified badges etc.
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KevinMarks it's to verify thta you are the same person
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KevinMarks eg https://twitter.com/instapundit/status/697215230271758339
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@instapundit Forget @twitter, follow me on Quitter! https://quitter.se/instapundit/all No, really. (twitter.com/_/status/697215230271758339)
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aaronpk but that's also the wrong mentality. it shouldn't matter what you're using, you should be able to follow anyone anywhere
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tantek ^^^ This
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KevinMarks these may be separate cases
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KevinMarks establishing a rel=me graph is how we show it's the same person
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tantek that should be something the custom UI / OAuth flow that Known/Gnusocial do automatically just as *part* of that migration
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tantek it doesn't make sense to focus on purely the rel=me graph
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tantek and what's the use case for "show it's the same person"?
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KevinMarks is this really instapundit, or some imperonator
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KevinMarks though are trusting the host of that instance to be honest
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kylewm I like it
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kylewm Though I guess it gives a false sense of security since sune could
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kylewm Someone could tweak their there to always show a verified checkmark
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kylewm Theme*
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[shaners] Verified™ is a racket.
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[shaners] And what verified even means is a moving target.
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[shaners] For example, https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity
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gRegorLove True, Taylor Swift should be Twitter verified
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[shaners] @SwiftOnSecurity is *clearly* not Taylor Swift, but is someone (anonymous) that is a real person and has a particular voice.
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[shaners] And @SwiftOnSecurity could write an article for a magazine or newspaper. Or be quoted in articles.
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[shaners] And at this point Verified™ is really just code for Famous™
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kylewm But it does seem valuable if the URL in your Twitter bio could confirm the bidirectional link
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kylewm Rather than relying on Twitter staff to verify you
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gRegorLove A client-side browser tool to verify the bidirectional link might be handy - don't have to rely on the silo/host
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kylewm Yeah!
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gRegorLove I agree the generic "verified" can be confusing though, with what Twitter's common usage has been.
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[shaners] kylewm: But even that doesn’t do the job that muggles expect it to do. Let’s say that @RealBrittanySpears has britnayspears.com as their URL and britnayspears.com links to @RealBrittanySpears. That’s bidirectional, but not actually Brittany Spears.
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gRegorLove Maybe just "Website confirmed"
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[shaners] The difference? That fake account I just made up links to the name with only one T in it. briTanyspears.com
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gRegorLove Also, whaddya mean that's clearly not Taylor Swift? :)
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[shaners] :stuck_out_tongue:
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gRegorLove What is verified?
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Loqi verified refers to a content or profile that is verified to belong to a certain identity https://indiewebcamp.com/verified
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KevinMarks I know verified twitter is a racket
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KevinMarks but we do have rel-me verification
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KevinMarks and verifying that https://shitposter.club/pewdiepie is https://www.youtube.com/user/PewDiePie could be done by the YT account linking back
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[aaronpk] app.net did website verification with rel me and showed a little check mark
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[aaronpk] But that's very different from what Twitter is doing with their verified thing
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irisisgay anyone know if Laconica/identi.ca/pump.io did any sort of verification like this?
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KevinMarks if you log in with openid they show an openid logo next to your url
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KevinMarks hm, bridgy isn't seeing webmention targets in svgur.com any more https://brid.gy/twitter/svgur_com#
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KevinMarks odd
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snarfed KevinMarks: it may think the two most recent tweets are posses
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snarfed the UI could definitely show that better
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KevinMarks if it did it would send the replies then?
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KevinMarks I still want a 'send me posses too' flag
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snarfed yes, if/when twitter search finds and returns them :P
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snarfed file an issue!
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kylewm maybe an issue that svgur.com returns 405 for HEAD requests?
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kylewm although if that were the case, i would still expect to see errors in the log file
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kylewm snarfed: yeah I get a <Response 499> when I run gr_source.follow_redirect("http://svgur.com/s/3a")
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KevinMarks hm
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snarfed heh
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KevinMarks so why does appengine give 405 for HEAD?
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gRegorLove What is 405?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "405" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indiewebcamp.com/s/10Ek
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KevinMarks I have to define a head() hadnler I suppose
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aaronpk what the heck
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aaronpk got a reply from google app engine
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aaronpk "To help us process your request, please do one of the following: Make a payment of $10 from the Transaction History page and reply to this message when the charge clears."
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@SueColetta1 RT @ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 54 (twitter.com/_/status/700899449124605952)
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@ReadersGazette BLOG Indie Author Answers by Jim Heskett http://www.jimheskett.com/indieauth Get help writing your book #bookbloggers 54 (twitter.com/_/status/700898677079089152)
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tantek what is Google App Engine?
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Loqi Google App Engine is a an application hosting service that supports several programming languages http://indiewebcamp.com/Google_App_Engine
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tantek aaronpk ^^^ might be worth documenting that
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KevinMarks ok, now I have a head handler with a webmention in it
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tantek aaronpk: could you screenshot that reply fro app engine or is that just an email?
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KevinMarks does the little retry arrow in bridgy just send the webmention, or does it recheck for an endpoint?
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@kevinmarks @svgur_com the butterfly effect http://svgur.com/i/3i.svg can I webmention an svg file? Is that allowed? (twitter.com/_/status/700918495354052608)
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KevinMarks yay, got the webmention to work on an svg file http://svgur.com/s/3i
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KevinMarks shame it doesn't if the svg file is the last link though
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KevinMarks tantek: contact info discovery
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KevinMarks you can create a link that causes a twitter dm conversation
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/messages/compose?recipient_id=57203
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tantek I can already
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tantek oh that's a new one
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KevinMarks which goes with the facebook page conversation thing
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KevinMarks http://fb.com/msg/indiewebcamp
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tantek kevinmarks, I updated my /contact page - can you reload it and try tapping on Twitter DM?
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@ZebaTalk RT @benwerd Tantek Çelik has made his social media profiles private, now solely publishes publicly on the independent web: http://tantek.com/2016/048/b1/going-silo-private-prefer-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/700969438976352256)
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@GlennRicePro Just upgraded @withknown to the latest and setup HTTPS with @letsencrypt. Feels like cheating somehow - just too easy ;-) #indieweb #secure (twitter.com/_/status/701012540298362881)
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@GlennRicePro Just upgraded @withknown to the latest and setup HTTPS with @letsencrypt. Feels like cheating somehow - just too easy ;-) #indieweb #secure (twitter.com/_/status/701015975739523072)
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calumryan.com edited /events/2016-02-24-homebrew-website-club (-4) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /events/2016-02-24-homebrew-website-club (+20) "/* Brighton */" (view diff)
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Loqi [indieweb] "@brunoshine yes! Like peer-to-peer #indieweb interactions with #microformats2. Stay tuned for browser support news. :)" http://tantek.com/2016/042/t2/indieweb-microformats2
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Loqi [indieweb] "An Alphabet of IndieWeb Building Blocks: Article to Z" http://tantek.com/2015/224/b1/alphabet-indieweb
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lukasros !tell aaronpk Output from Telegraph is really helpful when debugging webhooks.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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lukasros Telegraph++
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Loqi Telegraph has 1 karma
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aaronpk oh good
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aaronpk whatcha working on?
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lukasros I'm not even using Telegraph at the moment; another person (dogada) sent me a Webmention and it failed and he just gave me the output from Telegraph.
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lukasros Then I used it to fix my endpoint.
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aaronpk nice!
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lukasros But I was wondering ... the URLs are not public so I had to log in but after login I could access it even if it was from another user. Is there no access control or is Telegraph smart enough to find out I was the receiver?
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aaronpk ah hmm let me check
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aaronpk oh yeah it just checks if you're logged in at all
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aaronpk the non web-app version of the status URLs are public
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lukasros Ah ok.
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aaronpk https://telegraph.p3k.io/webmention/10q71vIz12LjlVSf3B vs https://telegraph.p3k.io/webmention/10q71vIz12LjlVSf3B/details
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lukasros Ah I see.
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aaronpk i should just make the details one public too
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lukasros Yes, that would be a good idea.
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lukasros Helps when you want to send them to someone else to debug (like in my case).
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aaronpk done!
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lukasros aaronpk+++
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Loqi aaronpk has 75 karma
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cjk101010 hi
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@RikMende Happy to enjoy @letsencrypt TLS certificates on my blog/site #indieweb - the secure web just got easier to put in… https://www.rmendes.net/2016/happy-to-enjoy-letsencrypt-tls-certificates-on-my-blogsite-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/701112376590860288)
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Loqi [indieweb] "Happy to enjoy @letsencrypt TLS certificates on my blog/site #indieweb - the secure web just got easier to put in practice !" by Rick Mendes http://www.rmendes.net/2016/happy-to-enjoy-letsencrypt-tls-certificates-on-my-blogsite-indieweb
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M-RyanRix Hi everyone
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aaronpk morning!
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/20/5/ http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/aaronparecki.com/2016/02/20/5/
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Loqi [indieweb] "Known 0.9.1 has left the building and it's a gorgeous piece of #indieweb "prêt á porter"" by Rick Mendes http://stream.withknown.com/2016/known-091-has-left-the-building
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@RikMende Known 0.9.1 has left the building and it's a gorgeous piece of #indieweb "prêt á porter" http://stream.withknown.com/2016/known-091-has-left-the-building (twitter.com/_/status/701129846907211777)
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@aaronpk Enabling Global Webmentions with Telegraph and @Superfeedr https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/20/5/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/701130861823991808)
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@superfeedr RT @aaronpk Enabling Global Webmentions with Telegraph and @Superfeedr https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/20/5/ #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/701131280323387393)
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aaronpk well that was an unexpected morning project
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KevinMarks I'm still puzzled by bridgy and svgur.com permalink guessing. http://svgur.com/s/1q got the linked post, but https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/700847081695522816 didn't
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@kevinmarks @Callionica @PixelCutCompany right, but you can work around this in svg - I fixed it here http://svgur.com/s/3a - [photo] (twitter.com/_/status/700847081695522816)
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KevinMarks is it because it's me sending it so it thinks I must be posseing?
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aaronpk oy. the whitespace parsing bug is biting me
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/69
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gRegorLove Hmm, do I understand correctly if we put HTML sans CSS into DOMNode::innerText, it will return what we need?
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aaronpk I have no idea. I try to stay away from this level of things.
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gRegorLove Hehe
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gRegorLove I'll run some experiments
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@AmateurTechno Just set up my site with this, first stage of making it part of the #Indieweb https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/701130861823991808 (twitter.com/_/status/701144364240793603)
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GWG I seem to remember someone had a good article on Let's Encrypt and nginx. Anyone?
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2015/12/07/8/letsencrypt
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GWG How do you remember to renew?
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GWG Since you are running it manually?
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aaronpk well letsencrypt emails you about 2 weeks ahead of time
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@jordan_web RT @AmateurTechno Just set up my site with this, first stage of making it part of the #Indieweb https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/701130861823991808 (twitter.com/_/status/701145487592833029)
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aaronpk but after the first renewal, i set up a cron job to renew them
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aaronpk once everything is set up like that, renewal can be totally automatied
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GWG I have two servers. One only has one domain/subdomains.
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GWG The other has a lot more and I need to individually get certificates for each.
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GWG Also I still have to see about ALPN if CentOS isn't
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gRegorLove Oh, there is now DOMNode::innerText in PHP currently. DOMText in PHP7 might be what we need. http://us2.php.net/manual/en/class.domtext.php
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gRegorLove s/now/no/
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Loqi gRegorLove meant to say: Oh, there is no DOMNode::innerText in PHP currently. DOMText in PHP7 might be what we need. http://us2.php.net/manual/en/class.domtext.php
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aaronpk oh gosh, I don't want to wait for php7 to fix this
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gRegorLove I don't know an alternative that isn't a lot of code.
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gRegorLove glennjones Node shim replaces block-level elements with a single space
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gRegorLove May not be tooo bad trying that https://github.com/glennjones/microformat-shiv/blob/dev/lib/text.js
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aaronpk oh like adds a space after any block-level tags?
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kevinmarks.com edited /GNU_social (+191) "/* js dr */" (view diff)
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GWG https://tacticalsecret.com/early-impacts-of-letsencrypt/
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GWG Hmm..
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aaronpk alright, time to implement authorship discovery
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aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship
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Loqi [indieweb] "235 Days on the Indieweb; something changed" by Tino Kremer https://tinokremer.nl/2016/235-days-on-the-indieweb-something-changed
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cweiske is there anyone who has implemented handling of vouch "449 retry with vouch" on webmention seending?
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@sabotrax Test-Tweet per Indieweb-Tool Known. https://withknown.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/701162536918511616)
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Loqi [indienews] New post: https://tinokremer.nl/2016/235-days-on-the-indieweb-something-changed (from https://aaronparecki.com/2016/02/20/8/) http://news.indiewebcamp.com/en/tinokremer.nl/2016/235-days-on-the-indieweb-something-changed
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KevinMarks I was thinking about generating vouches, and what the easy cases are
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@tinokremer 235 Days on the Indieweb; something changed #indieweb https://tinokremer.nl/2016/235-days-on-the-indieweb-something-changed (twitter.com/_/status/701163015257923584)
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KevinMarks and if there is a back and forth reply thread, then a vouch is easy to make
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aaronpk oh what weird, some of my bookmarks are double posted
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aaronpk also I wonder what's going on with tinokremer's Known install, it rejected my webmention https://telegraph.p3k.io/webmention/10XRB1dLGPXDf1xHYt/details
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aaronpk tried again and it worked
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GWG So, my test site, tiny.n9n.us, is now using Let's Encrypt.
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GWG Later...the live stuff
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snarfed GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 145 karma
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tinokremer.nl edited /silo-quits (+1543) "/* Silo quitters 2016 */" (view diff)
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snarfed is adding mf2 to bridgy's users pages
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snarfed "html is my api"
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aaronpk considers whether to support making an extra HTTP fetch to look up author information
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raucao anyone knows how to enable micropub in known by chance?
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Tino As far as I know it's always enabled
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raucao Tino: thx
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KevinMarks this is great footage for handling load surges https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/701171813544386560
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@BBCArchive #OnThisDay 1950: Okay folks, the British Electricity Authority has put out an economy warning. Turn everything off! https://amp.twimg.com/v/df7e0a99-bd9a-40a9-87b3-59fe22fa5757 (twitter.com/_/status/701171813544386560)
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@INC_says The only real thing stopping you from making your #indie is YOU. so what are you waiting for? #indiefilm #indieweb #fanfilm #Inc_says (twitter.com/_/status/701176807236587520)
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@zpinternational RT @INC_says The only real thing stopping you from making your #indie is YOU. so what are you waiting for? #indiefilm #indieweb #fanfilm #Inc_says (twitter.com/_/status/701177094475161600)
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snarfed done! bridgy's api now includes responses, publishes, and blog posts. eg http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https://brid.gy/twitter/petermolnar
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aaronpk oh my gosh so many test cases for authorship
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aaronpk whoa neat!
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aaronpk snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 199 karma
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@skddc I'm back on Instagram: https://t.co/Oy0V050GKq. And thanks to Known and #indieweb everything's synced to https://updates.kip.pe this time. (twitter.com/_/status/701178754329141256)
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raucao thanks everyone making that possible with me just having to enable a plugin in an open-source cms and click a few buttons on bridgy!
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snarfed raucao++
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Loqi raucao has 1 karma
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raucao snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 200 karma
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aaronpk oh man i can't wait to write this and then never write it again lol
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snarfed dry++
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Loqi dry has 5 karma
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aaronpk woohoo one passing test
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aaronpk 2 down
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aaronpk TDD is fun, as long as you're reasonably sure you have enough correct tests written
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snarfed yes!
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snarfed testing++
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Loqi testing has 14 karma
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KevinMarks you can always add more tests as you go
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aaronpk i find myself in a very different mindset when writing tets vs writing code
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snarfed documented bridgy's mf2 api: https://brid.gy/about#api
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aaronpk huh, was wondering about the ordering of steps 7.1 - 7.4 and turns out it's answered in the FAQ on the page http://indiewebcamp.com/authorship
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KartikPrabhu where is the FAQ on that page?
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aaronpk oh sorry, "Algorithm Design Notes"