#indieweb 2017-01-20

2017-01-20 UTC
tantek, pindonga, wolftune and KevinMarks joined the channel
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/cramforce/status/822184263172796416
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@cramforce @adactio specifically we’d like to propose <link rel=share> (or similar name) to provide preference of shared URL for a given page. (twitter.com/_/status/822184263172796416)
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aaronpk preference of shared URL?
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aaronpk is this AMP trying to link back to the original?
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aaronpk maybe use rel=canonical?
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@kevinmarks @cramforce @adactio so the page has a link to the version it wants shared. Is it like u-repost-of https://indieweb.org/repost or rel=bookmark? (twitter.com/_/status/822260255652397057)
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aaronpk well at least he's honest about it https://twitter.com/cramforce/status/822254953985019904
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@cramforce @adactio we’d fallback to that, but people want to override it for some legit and less legit reasons. (twitter.com/_/status/822254953985019904)
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aaronpk (re: rel=canonical)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/822261805359603713
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@kevinmarks @cramforce @adactio rel-bookmark is already in the html5 spec, and in lots of CMSs, including WordPress https://www.w3.org/TR/html51/links.html#link-type-bookmark (twitter.com/_/status/822261805359603713)
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KevinMarks I think rel-bookmark is closer to what he wants
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aaronpk Kind of?
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aaronpk i assume this is for a little "share" button on articles
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KevinMarks As a permalink
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aaronpk tho I don't quite get their whole plan cause does anyone really want to share to G+?
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aaronpk Are they planning a more generic share button?
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aaronpk Frankly it's kind of silly either way. It's like a band aid on top of the real problem which is that google is serving copies of the article at their own URL which breaks the browser's bookmark and share functionality
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KevinMarks This will be for amp linking to the original article
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KevinMarks Hence u-repost-of
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aaronpk The fact he asked about "rel=share" specifically suggests they're doing more than just linking to it
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aaronpk i don't think repost-of makes sense either because google isn't really reposting an article even tho they are serving a copy of it
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aaronpk repost-of implies there is someone of interest who reposted it
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-20.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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@100daysindieweb Day 30: Documented the Bookmark Interface for Quill #100DaysOfIndieWeb: https://aaronparecki.com/2017/01/19/30/day30-quill (twitter.com/_/status/822297809827205120)
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KevinMarks https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/822229774244474881
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@Pinboard Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to boil the ocean, and you eat fish soup for the rest of your life (twitter.com/_/status/822229774244474881)
Pierre-O, snarfed, KevinMarks, wolftune, strugee, KevinMarks_, acegiak, Ruxton, cweiske, pindonga, jihaisse, sknebel_, bttf_, cjk101010, Jeena_, Kamelreiter, tantek, lmorchard and nitot joined the channel
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Zegnat Good morning IndieWeb
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voxpelli Good morning Zegnat!
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Zegnat How is Malmö today, voxpelli?
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voxpelli Nothing much happening
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[jeremycherfas] Good morning all
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@martinlindner @BryanAlexander the whole idea of the #indieweb is not popular at all, to say the least. it's our fault too. (twitter.com/_/status/822382566942457857)
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[jeremycherfas] Happy to say that OleVik was able to fix the caching problem with the Grav RSS-reader plugin and that it now works well on my site.
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sebsel [jeremycherfas] yaay!
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[jeremycherfas] Next step: curating the feed and the presentation of the results.
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GWG Good morning, all
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arush @GWG morning.
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GWG Hello, arush. What brings you here today?
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arush My plan to get indieauth working before Monday. :)
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GWG That's a good goal.
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GWG Working on what?
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arush Working on a WordPress install. It mostly works, but once I get past the authorization delegation, it 404's.
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GWG arush, my site runs WordPress, anything I can do?
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arush @GWG do you have your setup documented somewhere? I have all the indieweb plugins installed, and the only one not active is hum, because that one is creating 404 errors as well. But I'm using a cname for my domain to redirect to a subdomain as opposed to parking the domain with the current host. Would that have anything to do with this?
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GWG You are trying to log into your site with Indieauth or the wiki?
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arush With indieauth. Using my domain.
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GWG No, what are you using Indieauth to log into? Are you using the Indieauth plugin to log into your site with Indieauth or something else?
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GWG The Indieweb plugin should allow you to configure your site to allow you to use Indieauth on other sites
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GWG Also, what URL is 404ing?
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GWG I have to step away, but I do want to help if I can
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arush @GWG hang on and I'll leave the URL here. I'll walk through the process and give you exact steps to reproduce.
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GWG I am always logged in
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jaduncan Hi, does anyone know of a RSS to micropub site/script that will generate a micropub post for each RSS entry? It would make data transfer a lot easier for quantified self in Known.
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cweiske jaduncan, I did that not for RSS but for instagram
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cweiske to pipe instagram pictures into known via micropub
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tantek that's a clever idea jaduncan!
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Loqi tantek: KevinMarks left you a message 1 day, 10 hours ago: can you invite people to the fb event for the next hwc sf? I may be in nyc so don't want to be the inviter
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tantek yes I should do that kevinmarks
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jaduncan Yeah, the reclaimyourgram service? I wondered if I should take a wander around the codebase. I'm slightly surprised that Known doesn't have a plugin for this to be honest.
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Zegnat jaduncan, did you ask in the #knownchat channel?
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jaduncan Not yet, and if I'm going to spend time coding something I'd start with the generally useful solution rather than the Known-only one. I'll pop over and report back though.
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cweiske jaduncan, no, I made my own
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jaduncan @tantek: Very occasionally I have them. ;)
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cweiske https://github.com/cweiske/instagram2micropub
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jaduncan @cweiske: is the sourcecode around somewhere?
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jaduncan Ah, you just beat me to it. Thank you.
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cweiske I'm using shpub in the end, see http://cweiske.de/shpub.htm
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cweiske so the script only parses the json and then calls shpub with some parameters
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aaronpk RSS to micropub is starting to sound like it would be useful for IFTTT to add Micropub as a channel
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jaduncan /quit
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jaduncan OK, that web interface doesn't do that. Back in a second.
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tantek aaronpk: indeed. It's almost like a flipside of silo.pub
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sebsel yeah, make sure you don't connect Twitter-to-Atom to RSS-to-Micropub to Silo.pub-to-Twitter ;)
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[jeremycherfas] Sebsel ++
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tantek jaduncan any particular type of QS stuff / service? There's a bunch of specifics on the wiki e.g. https://indieweb.org/exercise
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jaduncan Essentially Strava and Google Fit, but I'm tempted to try and generalise the approach because so many things export to RSS or have hacks to get the data out that way.
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tantek jaduncan: indeed. I gathere some info on exporting from Strava ...
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tantek what is Strava?
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Loqi Strava is a run and bicycle exercise tracking silo that also has native client apps https://indieweb.org/Strava
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tantek ^^^
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tantek what is Google Fit?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Google Fit" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek one challenge with generalizing to RSS is that it's so lowest common denominator that it may be too lossy (in terms of the details of what each service provides you)
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sebsel Strava actually has some metadata in the <meta> fields.
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sebsel things like fitness:distance:value...
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sebsel It's OpenGraph I believe?
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sebsel https://www.strava.com/activities/705700343
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sebsel but it probably has more in the API
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aaronpk wow that's a lot of meta tags
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aaronpk interesting
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tantek interesting, you can get the HTML for someone else's activity, but not the "export", e.g. sebsel, you can get this: https://www.strava.com/activities/705700343/export_original
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tantek (but none of the rest of us can)
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tantek (even logged in)
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sebsel oh, yep, that's a download for me
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tantek check out that JSON
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tantek whereas I see "Sorry, you are not allowed to access that page."
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sebsel It's not JSON in the download... .tcx / XML, but yeah
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sebsel Oh, I kind of need to import my Strava now :D
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tantek sebsel, yup. I exported all mine from 2016, then deleted it all (online), and started over for 2017
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aaronpk whoa
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aaronpk silo purge?
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sebsel hm, I actually use a GPS watch, so I already have the original copy's of every run
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sebsel but that's not what you get when you do /export_original
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jaduncan[m] You're right, the RSS is extremely basic in comparison. I'm just looking at the Fit REST API, because I am apparently a masochist.
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jaduncan[m] curl --header "Authorization: Bearer ya29.1.yourtokenvalue" -X GET \
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jaduncan[m] --header "Content-Type: application/json;encoding=utf-8" \
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jaduncan[m] "https://www.googleapis.com/fitness/v1/users/me/sessions?startTime=2014-04-01T00:01:00.00Z&endTime=2014-04-30T23:59:00.00Z" gives you JSON for the month, including all Strava activities if exported there.
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tantek aaronpk, more like a silo reset
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aaronpk apparently Google+ web is shutting down
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aaronpk i don't quite understand the scope of this
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tantek wait wat? like their entire web UI?
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aaronpk "It also means it’s time to say goodbye to classic Google+ on the web, which we’ll be turning down on January 24." https://blog.google/products/google-plus/making-googleplus-work-better-for-you/
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aaronpk I can't tell what exactly that means
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tantek good week to bury news like that I suppose :P
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aaronpk "classic Google+"? is that different than current Google+?
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aaronpk aha it is
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tantek goes to https://plus.google.com/ to see what's what
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jaduncan[m] Yeah, it's just killing the old UI front end. It was heavy as anything.
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jaduncan[m] Now there's a new (somewhat) more lightweight UI.
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tantek interesting, it does seem faster, and links/buttons seem to even work without loading plus.google.com javascripts
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KevinMarks I hope that doesn't break the rel-me support
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tantek KevinMarks: no rel-me in the view source of my G+ profile
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KevinMarks Did plindner get them to fix that?
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aaronpk i don't even see my website *visible* on my profile
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tantek that too
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aaronpk i clicked on "about" on my profile and it takes me to literally https://aboutme.google.com/?referer=gplus
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KevinMarks Not on mobile.
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KevinMarks Bah. I suppose it lasting 10 years is quite good by Google standards
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KevinMarks So that Blogpost isn't plus, and doesn't have comments?
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tantek aaronpk: do you have a specific time of day you try to get your 100daysof*** projects done by? ordering? etc.
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plindner KevinMarks: I'll check on the rel=me issue. IIRC they are serving up the old page to crawler UAs and the new page to actual users.
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KevinMarks Right, but if they're discontinuing the old page they may break that by accident. Can you add an integration test that checks the rel me are still there?
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snarfed what happens when a feed reader suddenly starts polling instagram-atom every 10s :/ whee! https://snarfed.org/ig-atom.png
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Loqi snarfed: tantek left you a message 1 day, 22 hours ago: you show # of reposts (or a facepile or some other display) of your posts on your posts right? Add yourself, site, and implementation here: https://indieweb.org/reposts#IndieWeb_Examples
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tantek what is rate limiting?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rate limiting" yet. Would you like to create it?
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aaronpk polling--
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Loqi polling has -2 karma
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voxpelli What's crawler UA:s? Everything not recognized as a browser UA?
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voxpelli snarfed: yikes, wonder if it sends some good http headers at least?
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aaronpk oh about your earlier question tantek, I usually try to get one of them done before 10-11am. at the beginning I was starting with music but I've switched to starting with indieweb, although I am trying to switch back to doing music first.
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voxpelli Some eg. sends cache headers that can be used to answer more quickly
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tantek starts a how to section on 100days
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jaduncan[m] Generally it means the Googlebot and a few other specific strings. Most things that aren't those pretend to be them. An interesting experience happens if you set your own UA as the Googlebot - an amusing subset of sites suddenly become notably less full of javascripted ad bits.
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sebsel snarfed that isn't me :o
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snarfed user agent is "Unknown." :P but caching on my side, absolutely, honestly regardless of whether they send Etag or If-Modified-Since or whatever. i actually thought it already was, but must be a bug
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snarfed regardless, blacklisted for now. https://snarfed.org/ig-atom-2.png
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aaronpk heh
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voxpelli snarfed: was thinking caching as in sending a not-modified response, so you don't have to send any body
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voxpelli Superfeedr and Pinboard had a public discussion way back when Pinboard thought Superfeedr polled it too hard
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voxpelli It ended up with suggestion to Pinboard to support "not modified" responses and to of course ideally support PuSH/WebSub
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snarfed sure! the expensive part is fetching instagram, parsing it, and generating atom. the existing caching just stores and serves the atom end result, which is cheap
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tantek ok I think I'm going to try to start modest, with "100 days of positive posts "
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tantek I don't even know if I have 100 days of posting every day historically in my archives
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tantek aaronpk, how are you handling timezones in your 100 days project? when do you draw the line between days? midnight PST? (will you finish before PDT?) or midnight local-to-travel-timezone? (so some days have more / fewer hours to do a "thing" for that day?)
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aaronpk so far that hasn't come up yet, since I've been in PST this whole time and have gone to bed before midnight every day
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aaronpk but my plan was before midnight in my local timezone
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aaronpk all my posts are timestamped with the local timezone, so a post on the 20th at 23:59 in europe will show up as being posted on the 20th
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tantek aaronpk, what happens if you cross the Intl date-time line and literally lose a local timezone "day" ?
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tantek is likely to run into this problem
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aaronpk good question! I guess I would just be off a calendar day at that point
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tantek in April
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aaronpk has never crossed the international date line o.O
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tantek never been to Asia / Australia?
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aaronpk nope
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aaronpk clearly we should have the next w3c face to face meeting in japan
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tantek aaronpk we tried to at TPAC 2015 but we lacked sufficient RSVPs!
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aaronpk i should livetweet something while on a flight across the date line. that'd be interesting to see all my timestamps of those posts
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Loqi +1
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tantek notices not everyone's 100 days project has a specific hashtag
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tantek hmm, besides aaronpk, only sebsel is using a complete hashtag currently. though gRegorLove is not starting til Feb 1 so he has time to pick / use one too
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gRegorLove I wasn't planning to use a hashtag necessarily.
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tantek why not?
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tantek looks into a shorter hashtag for his
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gRegorLove You asked the other day and I suggested #100words. I don't usually hashtag posts that I syndicate to Twitter
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gRegorLove They're usually syndicated as: New post: [title]
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tantek hmm
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gRegorLove Maybe I will. We'll see.
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tantek found a 7 char hashtag unused so far
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tantek that'll do
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sebsel Ah I'm not really doing hashtags though.
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tantek interesting, looks like #100days is a thing that is starting today for lots of people
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sebsel I have a p-category, that's it. Not syndicating to Twitter.
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gRegorLove First 100 days of new president, probably?
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sebsel yeah, I saw that when researching after aaronpk began. I assumed it was a known US thingy ;)
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tantek yeah - and others are piling on for their own projects
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gRegorLove I may not syndicate all my 100 Words posts to Twitter. I haven't posted notes as regularly lately, and I don't want my Twitter to just become a list of links during that time.
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tantek sebsel I'll hashtag your category ;)
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sebsel I never saw the use of categories, but now I have them they give nice overviews of posts :)
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tantek wonders what happens when aaronpk's tag pages get webmentions (if they even accept them)
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tantek will find out shortly
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aaronpk they get stored but i don't display them yet. not sure how I want to do that yet
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Loqi [indieweb] "Starting a modest #IndieWeb #100Days of Positive Posts #100DoPP, inspired by @aaronpk #100DaysOfIndieWeb #100daysofmusic, @jkphl #100days of #opensource, @sebsel #100dagen500woorden, and @gRegorLove #100Words in 100 Days. Despite being an optimist, I’m also expecting many (more) things to (start to) go wrong today with the inauguration of the new @POTUS. And since they’re often measured on their first 100 days in office, I’m making a deliberate effort to post at least something positive every day, preferably at the start of the day, as a direct counter. The basic idea for #100DoPP: * Every day: post something positive on your own site * whether something positive you did (ideally) * a positive / constructive idea or suggestion * or something positive someone else is doing or suggesting * Preferably *before* posting anything negative that same day I’m not sure if I’ve ever had 100 continuous days of posts on my site, so I’m expecting to have to make this a part of my daily routine just to make sure it happens. @Twitter and other so-called “social media” make it easy to post *something* every day to their silos, so 100 days of that is not interesting in my opinion. It’s also easier to complain than to be constructive. Thus despite not being as ambitious as https://aaronparecki.com/tag/100daysofindieweb or certainly https://aaronparecki.com/tag/100daysofmusic (which is seriously amazing), I expect 100 days of deliberately positive posts, on one’s own site, to be no small feat. Perhaps a medium feat. ;) Up for the challenge? Join me and tag your posts #100DoPP. Up for more? See: https://indieweb.org/100DaysOfIndieWeb for additional 100 Days projects." on 2017-01-20 http://tantek.com/2017/020/t3/indieweb-100days-positive-posts-100dopp
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@t Starting a modest #IndieWeb #100Days of Positive Posts #100DoPP, inspired by @aaronpk #100DaysOfIndieWeb ... http://tantek.com/2017/020/t3 (twitter.com/_/status/822535858989441025)
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@t Starting a modest #IndieWeb #100Days of Positive Posts #100DoPP, inspired by @aaronpk #100DaysOfIndieWeb ... http://tantek.com/2017/020/t3 (twitter.com/_/status/822535858989441025)
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tantek Thanks Loqi :)
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Loqi you're welcome
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tantek fascinating, @FLOTUS44 and @POTUS44 just got "- Archived" added to their profile names and maintained by NARA
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tantek alright, 100DoPP now in my daily calendar. let's see if I can keep up with the before 10amish rhythm that aaronpk suggests
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aaronpk Ohhh AM-ish
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tantek or 10:00ish if you prefer ;)
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KartikPrabhu i read that as amish too
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[keithjgrant] Those of you who use static site generation, how do you go about creating Notes (microposts)?
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tantek What is create?
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Loqi create in the context of the indieweb refers to the act of and UI for creating a new post, in its simplest form, a new note https://indieweb.org/create
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@call_user_func [New]pfefferle/wordpress-indienews Push your IndieWeb articles to the IndieNews page. https://packagist.org/packages/pfefferle/wordpress-indienews (twitter.com/_/status/822549334973710340)
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@call_user_func [New]pfefferle/wordpress-indienews Push your IndieWeb articles to the IndieNews page. https://packagist.org/packages/pfefferle/wordpress-indienews (twitter.com/_/status/822549334973710340)
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voxpelli [keithjgrant]: I do it through micropund eg. skip the title and mark it up as a social thing: https://github.com/voxpelli/voxpelli.github.com/blob/master/_posts/2016-11-04-72086.md
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voxpelli s/micropund/micropub/
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tantek what is static site generation?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "static site generation" yet. Would you like to create it?
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tantek what is a static site generator?
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Loqi Static site generators are programs that take a set of flat text files on disk and transforms them into a set of static html files ready to be served by a standard web server, or some variation of this example https://indieweb.org/static_site_generator
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tantek static site generation is /static_site_generator
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Loqi ok
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tantek what is creating?
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Loqi create in the context of the indieweb refers to the act of and UI for creating a new post, in its simplest form, a new note https://indieweb.org/creating
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[keithjgrant] @voxpelli: so does that just post POST a new file directly to GitHub repo?
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Zegnat aaronpk, when you autofill Quill’s bookmark content with text from the page, do you mark that text up with a blockquot/h-cite/something?
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voxpelli [keithjgrant]: I have a service that does that in response to a Micropub request, yes: https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-micropub-to-github
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voxpelli it enables me to use Quill and other Micropub clients to do the job
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[keithjgrant] And what triggers a Jekyll rebuild?
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voxpelli [keithjgrant]: the commit does, previously using GitHub Pages, now using Netlify. Here's a short demo video btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBPmSpD2jN4
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voxpelli There's currently a small bug where the micropub endpoint sometimes is out of sync with the time at the build server so the build server thinks the post is from the future and doesn't render it yet, but apart from that it works fine
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Zegnat bookmarks voxpelli’s demo, that is bound to come up at some point
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GWG Afternoon
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[keithjgrant] Cool. So netlify is also your host?
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KevinMarks What's the build time like? If I were live-noting, would there be a backlog, or would it absorb a few commits then rebuild?
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KevinMarks My site rebuild is pretty inefficient as it redeploys the whole thing to Heroku
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KevinMarks I should change that
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Loqi it is probable
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voxpelli [keithjgrant]: yes, now it is
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tantek KevinMarks: static site rebuild?
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KevinMarks Yes. I commit to github, the hook fires a Heroku deployment
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voxpelli KevinMarks: I'm not sure actually, people who have big blogs have complained about long build times with Jekyll, not sure if the latest versions has solved that or how multiple build triggers interact
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KevinMarks This is an improvement over having to manually deploy to Heroku, but still not very efficient
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tantek that's the same problem that MT ran into right?
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KevinMarks Hugo is pretty impressively fast, buy I haven't tried it on something like my tweets
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voxpelli KevinMarks: netlify btw supports Hugo as well: https://www.netlify.com/docs/continuous-deployment/
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voxpelli wants to supports Hugo in his endpoint eventually as well
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Zegnat As long as a ssg has to fully rebuild your website there will always be a penalty I am guessing. Is there someway to tell it to not regenerate *everything*?
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KevinMarks Well there are knock on things, especially with pagination
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voxpelli yeah, it depends on how much data you share between pages I guess
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[keithjgrant] I'm trying out Hugo now
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sknebel when I thought about building a static generator one idea I had was integrating with git
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sknebel then you'd know which input files changed
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Zegnat There are probably always a lot of tag pages that don’t need to be rebuild. Only the ones used. And if you don’t have some sort of dynamic “related posts” section, most permalink-post-pages would not need updating either. That should cut back on a lot of generation, especially if you mostly have tweet-like notes.
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-20.html
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KevinMarks The Hugo setup I made for lifewithalacrity.com has one repository for the source posts, and another that Hugo generates into, then you commit that to github pages
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KevinMarks But that was meant for occasional longform posts
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[keithjgrant] Anybody try forestry.io?
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tantek ooh time to update the HWC cities for next week for the newsletter!
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tantek what is forestry.io?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "forestry.io" yet. Would you like to create it?
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[keithjgrant] forestry.io is a online CMS, web host, and automated build tool for static sites
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Loqi ok
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[keithjgrant] Looks like a free account can build & deploy to GitHub pages
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Zegnat It looks like HWC the Netherlands might get cancelled next week, because I am a silly person :(
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aaronpk Zegnat: re: http://indieweb.org/irc/2017-01-20/line/1484946649220 I do not, but I think it's about time that I do. I'll also need to do a big cleanup on my bookmark posts since I now have a mix of quotations and original content in my "content" field of my bookmarks
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-20.html
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@call_user_func [New]indiewordpress/wordpress-indieweb IndieWeb for WordPress! https://packagist.org/packages/indiewordpress/wordpress-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/822579507949355009)
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@call_user_func [New]indiewordpress/wordpress-indieweb IndieWeb for WordPress! https://packagist.org/packages/indiewordpress/wordpress-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/822579507949355009)
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-20.html (twitter.com/_/status/822583239835611136)
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2017-01-20.html (twitter.com/_/status/822583239835611136)
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[cleverdevil] waves
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[keithjgrant] Hey you
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[cleverdevil] its a Keith!
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[cleverdevil] :smile: