From IndieWeb

The W3C organized an event named Workshop on Social Standards: The Future of Business from .., at Tank 18, 1345 Howard st., San Francisco, USA, where several IndieWeb community members presented and participated in discussions.

Minutes, W3C IRC #osfw3c logs, Freenode IRC #indiewebcamp chat logs:


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Notes captured from the #osfw3c Etherpad follow.

osfw3c etherpad

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Hashtags: #osfw3c



Day 1


8:30-9:00 Introduction and discussion of agenda, process, and goals by Harry Halpin (W3C)

What is the future of social business strategy?

Want to come out of the workshop with a unified w3c strategy for open social

9:00-9:30 Are social media silos holding back business results? by Dion Hinchcliffe (The Dachis Group)

  • Social media was made for consumers, not business?
  • (Most attendees revealed themselves to be from a technical rather than a specific vertical background)
  • What problems are we trying to solve, have they been solved already, and what will make companies demand standards?
  • People keep asking for RSS feeds, but they are not consumed.
  • "We never had anybody call us up and ask 'hey can we get a SOAP feed?' No, people wanted something simple"
  • The social web has become a become a bunch of silos.
  • There is a strong tendency for people to adopt new technology when they see others adopting it.
  • "Numerous standards have come, but mostly gone"
  • Pubsubhubbub is hard to say
  • For social buisness tools to be effecctive, they must be "integrated".
    • "Much of the recent focus has been connecting social media with the flow of work"
  • We need a "USB port" for our social networks. We (IWC/The web) already have that!
  • Social networks should be more federated and interoperable than they are today.
  • The reason for using the USB port metaphor is that *anybody* can plug in a USB device!
  • It has to be easier to use social standards than to not.
  • Biggest issues right now (from final slide)
    • fragmentation
    • walled gardens
    • business models
    • poor awareness among enterprise developers
  • "It would be great if we had a federated social web"
  • In the consumer world, social media is the primary method of communication (online?).
  • People are using facebook instead of email because there is less spam.
  • Social media makes no assumptions about who the audience is (benwerd can you correct this)
  • Academic health researchers don't collaborate online. Eric Meeks from UCSF is trying to to get them to use social media for this. Academics will stay inside academic walls. (I wonder how they are going to deal with HIPA?)

I get the impression that the problem is that people are using social media (twitter, facebook, other online collaboration tools) instead of the provided "buisness" tools, and this serves as the basis for these other problems being discussed.

Boeng - 85,000 people internally use it - "no commercially available system suited our needs" + "Massive sharepoint deploymnet"

Need dead simple specs, things that can be described on a single page - JSON

9:30-11:00 Social Business Architecture

  • SAP Jam
  • Bought SuccessFactors, now an SAP company. Focused on enterprise social networking, centered around the employees
  • Building the social interactions "that are necessary, around your customers & partners"
  • Transforming the use of social from a personal relationship to a business relationship. (Is it a clean difference?) (DId this need to happen with the telephone way bac? (DId this need to happen with the telephone way back in the day?)
  • How do we capture "non-transaction based processes"?
  • Need tie-ins to systems of record, not just bolted on to the side
  • Tied into SAP business suite, cloud apps, analytics
  • Huge number of use cases to capture, things like HR, "social onboarding", knowledge management, etc. (Doesn't seem to be mention of informal use cases, informal discussion)
  • "If you go talk to your teenagers these days, you might ask them what they think of Facebook. [...] Facebook is passe." (Have seen same - BW.)
  • social is a 4.5 billion $$$ buisness
  • Have to figure out a way to get the social networks. 80% of employees don't use company sociial networks, because they're not user friendly, or they're not productive. (UX is key!) How does SAP bring together their applications? And why would they?
  • Goal: improving the productivity of employees by capturing non-transactional interactions. (Not mentioned: how is this measured? Can it be?)
  • If you cannot understand the information you're connected to, it does you little good. "We think that's needed going forward is a set of web-based content standards." (Microformats!)
  • "Standards in isolation aren't going to get us there." Discussion from Ford of setting up use case fiefdoms for standards generation - is this really the right approach?
  • Ford displays a reference architecture involving pieces like Social Graph, Profile, Identity, Social Fabric Engine, Stream Feeder, Embedded Experience, in a way that isn't necessarily intuitive
  • Simplify the picture: Human / System Integration => Enterprise Social Network Platform (literally a black box!) => Information Systems Integration.
  • "We don't design cars in Sharepoint".
  • "How do we replace email? If social tools stay in silos, they only take us 1/3 of the way."
  • "That's how we take ourselves from a multinational company into one that's truly global."
  • Social needs to be *in the tools* we already use
  • Don't worry about building new platforms, connect to the ones we already have
  • Natural languge processing + ??? = Wisdom Nuggets

  • Pipes to platforms:
  • Aggregating external into the process creates better results, at least for interactions between businesses (rather than within them)
  • Michael Porter's 5 forces that shape industry competition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_five_forces_analysis This core fabric is changing. (The 5 forces date from 1979, so no surprise.) "The players remain the same, but everything evolves."
  • The effect of a social business standard isn't going to be as impactful across all industries.
  • Standards between business more impactful than within
  • Long argument about the difference between collaboration and social. (Kill me.)

11:30 - 13:00 Use cases and Requirements


Monica Wilkinson presentation

Shipping Faster Leveraging Standards @ Crushpath

Monica Wilkinson - http://crushpath.me/monica


  • was at MySpace
  • started working on ActivityStreams with other folks
  • Atom based ActivityStreams
  • Working with Atom found that was a really heavy format, switched to JSON
  • Also worked a lot on the vocabulary
  • Common objects: places, friend concepts
  • Moved onto SocialCast - more about collaboration tools
  • They'd built an activity stream engine
  • Relational database that did a bunch of joins, bunch of queries
  • I introduced the concept with making things more consistent with ActivityStreams
  • Also introduced open graph protocol there
  • Should work across a lot of tools, sharepoint, wikis, whatever
  • Did a concept of rich plugins which could read OGP metadata

10,000 foot view of Crushpath (slide)

  • Working on Crushpath with a small team
  • Provides users with a fast, simple and affordable platform for sales & promotion
  • Offers vearious social promotion channels - places like Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook. (A bit like POSSE.)
  • You pitch anything that you want to market. Not specific to any vertical or product type
  • Content management, analytics built in
  • Examples: yourself, your team requirements, tennis team, etc.
  • Userbase is not very technical, very wary of posting the wrong thing
  • Google is now requiring people to use a G+ profile for social things
  • Integrations often take the user jarringly out of context
  • "Why are you asking me to create a G+ profile, I'm just trying to log in!"
  • I'm using ActivityStreams everywhere [presumably at Crushpath]
  • Different platforms use different standards. Facebook, eg, uses Open Graph and not Activity Streams. Is that a problem? Not really. Mapping between them isn't hard.
  • using Standards today: PuSH, so many good open source tools for it
  • have worked with Julien's company, Superfeedr
  • for auth stuff, we're using Oauth1 or Oauth2, with Ruby there's open source code, gems, we ourselves are offering Oauth2
  • I think standards help people ship faster, lot of collaboration, lot of open source code.
  • Walled gardens...

(next slide)

Standards Helped Us (covered this) (next slide)


  • Data retention policies (LinkedIn)
    • was using linkedin but their TOS say you have to delete the data in 24 hours so they stopped
  • Version disparities OAuth 2
  • Proprietary conventions like Twitter Cards which require business relationshp
  • contact management APIs in the wild are quite disparate
  • ogp vocab restrictd very closed broken adoption linked in

Our Asks

  • Native support in browsers for sharing
  • Native support in browsers for SEO links
  • Native support in browsers for alerting ...

Next presenter

Eric Meeks presentation

... Eric Meeks, UCSF, Clinical and Translational Science Institute

OpenSocial + Linked Data [you have got to be kidding me. ok I'm out. -t]

  • "It's basically like LinkedIn for biomedical researchers."
  • UCSF profiles contain deep researcher data, based on open source code from Harvard
  • Runs on IIS/.NET + Microsoft SQL + Tomcat / Java
  • Added OpenSocial to this glorious mix
  • Looks like the standard social profile layout

OpenSocial in UCSF Profiles (slide with too much information, can't tell what is going on, lots of small text) (Example profile: http://profiles.ucsf.edu/eric.meeks)

  • Challenge: the OpenSocial data model. A PR challenge as well as a technical challenge. Didn't tailor the system to UCSF's research needs; had lots of out-of-context options.
  • With only two installations, there were already divergent extensions to the linked data. Two installations couldn't talk to each other. Can this even be called a standard? [NO. Standards arise through use. BW]
  • FOAF. (Specifically, a proprietary extension thereof.)
  • [I'm not going to add more technical details, because I think we've got a pretty good picture. BW]
  • I don't always integrate linked data into OpenSocial, but when I do I express semantic data using at least three different abandoned projects.
  • Linked Data mostly being used to decouple the data model from the OpenSocial API.
  • All the usual linked data arguments.
  • https://github.com/ProfilesRNS [THE DOCUMENTATION IS A PDF IN THE GITHUB REPO. BW] [I really want to help them.] [I don't] [Personal reasons. UCSF is a great institution - and a real platform that actually works could save lives. This kind of standards BS makes me angry; but suspect they may be beyond help.]

[Is there a law about large complex standards congealing like the fatberg? Hearing about OpenSocial+JSONLD+RDF+FOAF.] [There will be soon. Just bought fatberg.org for the purpose of documenting this kind of thing.]

Boeing presentation

  • Commercial off the shelf collaboration tools
  • Microsoft, Atlassian, usual large-enterprise VOIP, conferencing, etc etc etc
  • Boeing also developed their own social networking tool 'from scratch', to be used inside Boeing, because the commercial offerings did not meet their needs. The tool has been very successful and is now used by half the company (85K employees!).
  • Looking at how social tools might be used in factory manufacturing environments.
  • Brand management.
  • Want to bridge between internal & external groups using the same tools.
  • Usual enterprise issues; DMZ issues, activity sharing, search across locations
  • MS Lync presence bridge to the web. No more .NET!
  • http://www.w3.org/2009/Talks/Boeing-tpac09.pdf

Li Ding presentation

  • Big data is right here, created and used by human
  • Social Web and Walled Gardens
    • I'm locked in a garden
      • my brain is fragmeented - (Dion's talk)
      • Loyalty vs. Trapped
    • I don't use a garden
      • Prefer not: bank statement
      • No such service

diagram of person a points to Silo X and Silo Y, Sily X points to Person B cartoon of schizophrenia and another cartoon walled cells of bebo, facebook, myspace, linkedin, flickr (new slide) Human Centric Design - Principle 1

  • Human readable knowlege
  • To extend human's memory
  • To facilitate ...

(new slide) Human readable knowledge: Design Issues (lots of text)

  • For developers
    • ...
  • For users
    • ...
  • ...
  • .

Afternoon session

ATT Telecom Italia presentations

Opportunities and challenges for standardization in mobile social networks (AT&T, Telecom Italia)


  • Privacy, security, ownership
  • Scalability
  • Federation

Open Mobile Alliance SNeW reuses social web standards, adds Internet mobility

  • ActivityStreams, OpenSocial, OAuth, Webfinger, etc
  • Privacy by default
  • Right to be forgotten [awesome!]
  • Data portability
  • ActivityStreams templates around mobile integration
    • eg scan a barcode to like an object
    • NFC tags
    • Augmented reality (point at something to tag it)
  • OpenID Connect + Mobile ID
  • Personal sharing clouds
    • Device-orientated
    • Federated, access-controlled sharing
  • Use social information to prefetch content using unused bandwidth, based on their interests, in order to save on costs and loading times


W20 Digital presentation

Social Federation Standards: The Key to the Next Social Web by Matt Franklin (W20 Digital)

Missing pieces

  • identity resolution
  • social graph

JSON-LD by Gregg Kellogg

  • When you name things name them with URIs
  • Use HTTP URIs so you can dereference them so you can find information about them
  • In the HTTP response describe them with standards like JSON-LD so you can link things to each other


  • a key added to a JSON document allows us to define vocabulary used

Day 2


Monica Lam presentation

How Mobile Revolutionizes Social by Monica Lam (Stanford)

Open Mobile (OM) by MobiSocial


cross-social-platform mobile messaging / chat

has been using it herself daily for 9 months with her team

identifier seems to be the email address

OpenSocial presentation

IBM / Sponsor presentation

gadgets / applications / embed them into a dashboard interoperability across their products and their business partners

mentioned ActivityStreams

"We solved hard problems"

idea: we wanted to take content, e.g. events from different sources one thing to know about an event but being able to derive content related or about the event ... context ... share ... relevant where it's rendered, what actions ... handwaving - you get an activitystream thing in your thing

"We're looking at some of the things that we have and don't really need anymore. And now we're looking at some stuff."

The future of OpenSocial is apps. [...]

Activity for the Enterprise presentation

(big slide, lots of text)

  • Activity Streams
  • "Embedded Experiences"
  • Activity ,_>Status
  • Mobile
  • Managing
  • Mining Activity
    • Finding common patterns of activity across different periods of time.
    • e.g. someone searches for a series of terms one month, a different person searches for a similar series of terms the next month, how do we match them up with each other?

AppFusions presentation


  • Pieces of IBM & Atlassian software, loosely joined around an activity stream
  • Widgets.
  • Jive talkin'.

Mozilla SocialAPI presentation

"own your experience"

  • Shane Caraveo is not a robot
  • The SocialAPI is not an API, not social - just the web, in your browser
  • "Put the agent back into 'User Agent'". [User agency?]
  • solve common tasks: share, notification, communciation , save for later
  • Unopinionated - it's not the browser's job to have an opinion about what the user uses
  • The browser is about the web as a platform.
  • Ask not what you can do for your browser
  • Current features
    • Sidebar
    • Notifications
    • Social bookmarking
    • Share
    • Chat windows
    • Persistent web worker
  • A lot of existing networks can add their "share" dialog into Firefox
  • Screenshot of Talkilla: live video chat over WebRTC in an inline or detatched window (with a man wearing a horse mask)

Web Components presentation


Creating new elements in HTML

IndieWeb Demos

Tantek Çelik on IndieWeb principles

All slides as HTML, with permalink URLs on the web, using indieweb published notes/tweets as slides in the presentation to demonstrate indieweb publishing in action and advantages of doing so.


Aaron Parecki on IndieAuth

http://aaronparecki.com demonstrated indieauth logging into his site using Pebble watch onetime code and then posting to his site: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/08/08/2/osfw3c

Bret Comnes using Github pages and Jekyll

Grad student at PSU demonstrated posting on bret.io a reply to Aaron Parecki's post using webmention http://bret.io/2013/08/08/t3/

Evan Prodromou on Pump io

ActivityStreams Streams demonstrates e14n.com

Ben Werdmuller on idno

Idno is a social publishing platform

learned from experience with Elgg problems with Elgg - e.g. does not support modern front-end standards like microformats

found the #indieweb

dangers when you're building & deploying a platform

  • putting tech cart before the usability horse
  • not shipping
  • Not putting your users first!

The indieweb is a social network that works like the web.

  • No one owns it


The #indieweb turns Idno into a laboratory that you hold the keys to

  1. Test federated social workflows
  2. Test new social content types or interactions
  3. Without significant investment into time or resources
  4. On your own infrastructure
  5. Slide presentation plugin wasfor Idno was written in an hour and half after he'd had a root canal.

Slides are actually a post in idno - demonstrating idno this entire time.

idno will support Mozilla Social API also, so you can reply right from your browser

demonstrates federated commenting by commenting on Aaron's site! http://werd.io/view/5203f02bbed7ded91833e43d

More demos

ID3 talk

Open Mustard Seed http://idcubed.org http://wiki.idhypercubed.org

Topics for discussion

  • Design patterns around FSW/Indieweb
    • Getting on the IndieWeb
  • Gadgets in relation to new web technologies
  • identity and profile federation
    • Centralized Profile
    • Linked data, description of skillsets
    • Representing Role in Enterprise to manage information sharing more effectively
  • ActivityStreams
  • Analytics
    • what to do with all this social information
    • Property Graph
    • visualizing who does what
  • Can we make indieweb work in the enterprise, make social business happen? (Round 2)
  • Solving today's problems vs. further out?
  • Federation across enterprise(s)

For Indieweb - we discussed how to make replies work better, more seamlessly, like reply buttons on sites or even in email.

Firefox 23 shipped with Social API share support this week.


Photos by Tantek Çelik (licensed CC-BY-3.0 with hypertext attribution requested as demonstrated at start of this paragraph with "Photos by ...")

Photos by vassko:

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