#indieweb

2014-09-30

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@OnTheWebz
RT @t: braindumped "vouch" #webmention #antispam protocol extension: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-28#t1411927207068 thoughts? http:///irc/2014-09-29 (ttk.me t4YN1) (twtr.io/rHBbNCF5PD)
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Loqi
[mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/516749008979890177/516850333041979393 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-28#t1411927207068 (webmention)
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Loqi
[mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/repost/twitter/t/516749008979890177/516850333041979393 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-09-30 (webmention)
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voxpelli
Regarding WebMention and leveraging it to DDoS sites, apparently Medium has blocked requests from WordPress due to such attacks leveraging Pingback: https://medium.com/medium-eng/it-takes-a-village-to-read-an-rss-feed-84e63a3c9094
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voxpelli
And now I see it might have already been discussed here, sorry
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KartikPrabhu
voxpelli: yes it was mentioned by KevinMarks_ would be good to solve this to have better distributed comments
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voxpelli
My "solution" currently is to severely limit the number of source lookups per minute/hour I do on a host
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voxpelli
Such measures are probably the only possible ones, at least that I can think of
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voxpelli
KartikPrabhu: Know if any other measures?
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voxpelli
X-forwarded-for sounds interesting
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KartikPrabhu
voxpelli: see: http://indiewebcamp.com/DDOS#How_to_avoid for some suggestions
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voxpelli
KartikPrabhu: Yeah, thanks, should update my endpoint with some more such protection
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KartikPrabhu
voxpelli: fwiw: i don't think webmention is popular enough yet for these
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voxpelli
KartikPrabhu: Me neither, but Pingback probably at one time wasn't either ;)
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KartikPrabhu
sure
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voxpelli
DDoS and such is a hard problem in that one would rather not dogfeed it but rather fix it beforehand :P
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KevinMarks
Activity Streams on the slope of enlightenment : https://twitter.com/EsthervanLuit/status/516852873796538368
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@EsthervanLuit
For those who haven't seen it yet (& it's a must-see), check out Gartner's 2014 Hype Cycle for Emerging Technologies! https://twitter.com/EsthervanLuit/status/516852873796538368/photo/1 (twtr.io/rHCWpd7feU)
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Loqi
[mention] http://mabulledu.net/ linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress-fr (webmention)
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@xtof_fr
Presque compatible Indieweb (Nicolas Cluzeau 29/09/2014) @nicolascluz : bravo et bienvenue sur #indieweb ! Vous .. http://xtof.withknown.com/2014/presque-compatible-indieweb-nicolas-cluzeau-29092014-nicolascluz-bravo-et-bienvenue (twtr.io/rHU4uuL9b3)
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@thorgnyr
#Indieweb. Please discuss. (twtr.io/rHZ82CBvNg)
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@adrianshort
@thorgnyr If you've got your own website then you're doing it. You don't need an invite. #indieweb (twtr.io/rHZBdm7gWf)
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@thorgnyr
@adrianshort Yes, I'm aware. Let me be more precise. IndieWeb #POSSE. please discuss. (twtr.io/rHZZzAbo_8)
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cweiske
"please discuss"
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@thorgnyr
@adrianshort My concern is mainly holding ownership over the material being syndicated to social media. Does #indieweb solva that for me? (twtr.io/rH_794uJaj)
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@acegiak
I want to work out how to do this in a #indieweb way but I feel like h-review is weirdly - http://acegiak.net/2014/09/30/5478/ (twtr.io/rHfaKDcs4H)
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annevk
tantek_: tantek___: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/ and pretty much every other spec I write has this license boilerplate
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annevk
tantek_: tantek___: as well as OWFA something
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annevk
tantek_: tantek___: the letter per your suggestion
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annevk
tantek_: tantek___: however, the link for the latter is broken, how can I fix it?
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annevk
tantek_: tantek___: also, I was thinking of making the license more visible, by having a "License:" field similar to "This version:"
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ben_thatmustbeme
hello all
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GWG
Hi, ben_thatmustbeme
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ben_thatmustbeme
hey, GWG, hows it going?
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annevk
ben_thatmustbeme: your nick is one character too long for my client for some reason
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ben_thatmustbeme
i break stuff
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't believe you can have any more than that'
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alanpearce_
ben_thatm<script>
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alanpearce_
:)
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ben_thatmustbeme
of course there are 3 of me logged on
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ben_thatmustbeme
one of them is dead, web client sometimes seems to leave the connection open
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Lots to do, as always.
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, same here. I am up really early now though thanks to my wife having to be up early, so I get to work like an hour early and just work on my site
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GWG
I have to run errands in a bit.
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GWG
But, was looking at trying something different for my site when I have time to devote to it
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh yeah? cool
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ben_thatmustbeme
like what?
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annevk
ben_thatmustbeme: your home page has mixed content
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, i know, the known image and indieauth logos
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Since the API I wanted to use isn't finished yet, I was going to go with a simple page template for notes.
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@adonaldson
I'd much rather have http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE than Ello I think (twtr.io/rHjR_NNYxb)
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ben_thatmustbeme
annevk, fixed
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ben_thatmustbeme
well... ugh... fixed, but broken
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ben_thatmustbeme
there we got
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/got/go/
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: there we go
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cuibonobo
good morning!
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning cuibonobo!
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cuibonobo
do any of y'all know why Google's date range search breaks for indie web camp irc logs?
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petermolnar
example pls.
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cuibonobo
if i were to do a search for `webmentions site:indiewebcamp.com/irc` and then under Google's 'Search Tools' adjust the search from 'Any Time' to 'Past year', i get *much* fewer results than expected
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petermolnar
I have no idea
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cuibonobo
i care about this because this channel tends to be a much higher bandwidth than i can hope to keep up with, but i would still like to somehow keep track of topics that interest me
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cr
what HTTP header should server add. Last-Modified?
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cr
donno why so many servers return Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:49:47 GMT - always
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cr
"now" time instead of date of the doc last-modification
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alanpearce
Well that's the Date header.
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alanpearce
Last-Modified is for last modification date :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes, excellent.
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ben_thatmustbeme
could someone log in to ben.thatmustbe.me with indieauth and tell me if "Recent Drafts" appears on top of the right column?
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, why does your indieauth client want me to do authorization instead of simple authentication?
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cweiske
you use response_type=code instead of response_type=id
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ben_thatmustbeme
ummm, not sure
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ben_thatmustbeme
did that a while back
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ben_thatmustbeme
let me fix that
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ben_thatmustbeme
it only needs code if it is going to log in to your site basically right?
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cweiske
response_type=code is for micropub clients
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ben_thatmustbeme
or if i needed post permissions
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cweiske
yes
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ben_thatmustbeme
i have a micropub client, but it makes you log in again if you want to use that
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske, try now
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cweiske
you don't normalize the URL I put into the url box
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cweiske
Given identity URL "http://cweiske.de" and claimed OpenID "http://cweiske.de/" do not match
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cweiske
trailing slash
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cweiske
ok, logged in now
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ben_thatmustbeme
you just like breaking stuff don't you?
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ben_thatmustbeme
haha
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cweiske
err. should I see the login form again after login?
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ben_thatmustbeme
no
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cweiske
then login did not work
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, interesting. yeah, i added the / to mine and it breaks
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ben_thatmustbeme
you just like breaking my site don't you
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ben_thatmustbeme
:P
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cweiske
i'm using my indieauth-openid proxy
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cweiske
do you have any logging when logins fail?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't have much. I need to add some more. but I think i know where the problem is
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ben_thatmustbeme
i added some extra bits to try and see if login would work with open_id at some point
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annevk
tantek_: tantek___: the redirect to some Google-operated domain is not reassuring
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annevk
tantek_: tantek___: I'm inclined to simply drop that
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kylewm
ben_thatmustbeme: I don't see Recent Drafts when logged in
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ben_thatmustbeme
excellent
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ben_thatmustbeme
its limited only to me
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cweiske
now you remove the trailing slash?
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ben_thatmustbeme
yes
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ben_thatmustbeme
just pushed that
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ben_thatmustbeme
try that
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cweiske
I can't continue because Given identity URL "http://cweiske.de" and claimed OpenID "http://cweiske.de/" do not match
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ben_thatmustbeme
so is trailing slash a required standard?
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cweiske
i'm checking. RFC 1738 does not require it
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Loqi
Welcome, indie-visitor! Set your nickname by typing /nick yourname
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cweiske
httpurl = "http://" hostport [ "/" hpath [ "?" search ]]
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ben_thatmustbeme
optional
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cweiske
fpath = fsegment *[ "/" fsegment ]
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cweiske
so having a / without a futher path is ok
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cweiske
, too
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske, indeed, but there needs to be some semblance of sanity there, you could trail with //////// and its valid, I'm willing to always have a trailing slash if its really a problem
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'll just normalize to always have a single trailing slash
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cweiske
let me check rfc 3986
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cweiske
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-6.2.3
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cweiske
indieauth-openid should do the normalization internally and decide that the urls are equivalient
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cweiske
and let the check pass
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cweiske
In general, a URI that uses the generic syntax for authority with an
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cweiske
empty path should be normalized to a path of "/".
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cweiske
question is if you should normalize the url you get or not
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annevk
ben_thatmustbeme: for HTTP URLs, yes
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annevk
ben_thatmustbeme: note that browsers implement https://url.spec.whatwg.org/ which does this correctly
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annevk
(or implement that to some approximation)
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ben_thatmustbeme
currently i normalize everything to take out the /
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cweiske
ok, then your normalization doesn't follow rfc 3986 :)
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cr
user identity should be doc-fragment ideally, https://cweiske.de/#me
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cweiske
don't begin with #me
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cweiske
I won't do it
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, if you follow https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#writing you'll also get a / after the host
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cweiske
"An absolute-path-relative URL must be "/", followed by a path-relative URL that does not start with "/"."
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barnabywalters
cr: why should someone’s identity be a document fragment?
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cweiske
that's the semantic web's view
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barnabywalters
cweiske: I know, I’m asking for the reasoning behind it
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barnabywalters
my identity online is a domain, not an HTML element with an id
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barnabywalters
cr: what tangible benefits does typing the document fragment give to users when they’re using their URL to log in somewhere?
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually i don't see any way that forces a /
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ben_thatmustbeme
An absolute URL must be a scheme, followed by ":", followed by either a scheme-relative URL, if scheme is a relative scheme, or scheme data otherwise, optionally followed by "?" and a query.
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ben_thatmustbeme
A scheme-relative URL must be "//", optionally followed by userinfo and "@", followed by a host, optionally followed by ":" and a port, optionally followed by an absolute-path-relative URL.
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ben_thatmustbeme
absolute-path-relative is optional
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cweiske
oh
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cweiske
right
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cr
barnabywalters: beacuse you get nameclashes with the doc and things defined in the doc otherwise
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cr
doesnt matter. if you want to use webID tools, you'll give in and do proper web-architecture
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ShaneHudson
As anyone got a way of POSSEing G+? I know there are no APIs, but should be a way of doing it
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ben_thatmustbeme
i heard that there was some app that had some weird way of doing it
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shaners
another site death: Orkut (Google's original social network) http://orkut.google.com/en.html
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Loqi
shaners: kylewm left you a message 9 hours, 37 minutes ago: with your Settings table in Homesteading, how do you switch between localhost and production?
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barnabywalters
cr: the representative h-card algorithm removes nameclashes, allowing domain -> profile mapping without the need for extra confusing URL syntax
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barnabywalters
cr: what’s your webID?
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ShaneHudson
shaners: That's surprising, I thought Orkut at quite a large Asian userbase
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shaners
I thought it was mostly in Brazil.
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barnabywalters
Shanehudson: shaners: I’d heard that too, about south america
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shaners
kylewm: how do I switch what between localhost and production?
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ShaneHudson
Ah could have been Brazil, my memory is awful
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cr
barnabywalters: 'extra confusing URL syntax' = using a doc URI without a fragID for the thing it defines.
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ShaneHudson
Has anyone had experience with squarespace? I presume it can't be used for indieweb?
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh, indieauth returns me no result if i use WITH a trailing slash indieauth fails
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ben_thatmustbeme
i tried to just put it back, i use whatever i'm given, trailing slash or no
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ben_thatmustbeme
i add http:// if neither http:// nor https:// is put on it
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ben_thatmustbeme
when i do that i get a code back, but the call to auth_endpoint returns an empty array
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barnabywalters
cr: look at the use of URLs in public spaces (e.g. advertising). It’s typically a domain, maybe with a single path segment. Never a fragment identifier
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cr
we're talking about identifying users now. not websites
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cr
or documents
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barnabywalters
cr: we’re talking about URLs, and how people relate to them
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barnabywalters
actual, real people, who have no idea what a “fragment identifier” is or why they should care about pseudo-philosophical webarch reasons for it’s existance
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cweiske
ben_thatmust, now I get no errors, but am also not logged into your site
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cweiske
gotta run
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cr
actual real people will get their URI minted for them and not have to know.
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, it does the same to me cweiske, same thing, call to auth endpoint returned nothing
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cr
you're making a lot of simple, trivial, indie tools harder if you decid you're going to have nameclashes everywhere
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barnabywalters
cr: what is “minting” a URL?
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barnabywalters
cr: where are these simple, trivial indie tools we’re “making harder”?
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cr
it's not pseudo-philosophical. once youve loaded your doc, the local identifiers start after the #
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barnabywalters
cr: what’s your webid? what tools do you use with it?
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cr
i manage my 'cloud storage' with https://github.com/deiu/warp
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cr
"minted" my URL with http://whats-your.name/anonymous.sh.html using openSSL conf from http://whats-your.name/anonymous.txt
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cr
can also test if it works by logging into http://cimba.co/
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barnabywalters
cr: what does the script at http://whats-your.name/anonymous.sh.html do? if I want to make a webID with it, how do I do that?
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gRegor`
!tell ShaneHudson I don't have experience with Squarespace, but my understanding is you have full control of the HTML, so you could use it for indieweb. Webmention would be tricky, of course. Unless we encouraged them to add support for it. :)
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor`
What is Squarespace?
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Loqi
Squarespace is a content hosting service (paid) that provides services such as blogging and domain hosting http://indiewebcamp.com/Squarespace
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barnabywalters
at the very least squarespace gives you enough control to use a squarespace site as your indieauth domain
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gRegor`
What is webID?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "webID" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=webID
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annevk
ben_thatmustbeme: if your identity is a domain, you should not take a URL... but then the protocol requires a URL...
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ben_thatmustbeme
huh... interesting
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ben_thatmustbeme
found the issue i'm ahving
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ben_thatmustbeme
if i give with a trailing slash to indie_auth, when it hits the callback it does not have one
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ben_thatmustbeme
which i was normalizing before testing
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ben_thatmustbeme
BUT
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ben_thatmustbeme
the state value is based on the me value
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ben_thatmustbeme
its which i generated before normalizing
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske try now
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ben_thatmustbeme
i have some instrumentation of what i'm getting back
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gRegor`
cweiske had to run
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cr
<a class="u-url url fn" href="http://waterpigs.co.uk" rel="me">
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cr
apparently barnaby is a website?
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ben_thatmustbeme
ack, oh well
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, well then, on to other bits, yes, barnaby is a website, so am I
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gRegor`
The full name of the person is what's inside the link (Barnaby). And his URL is http://waterpigs.co.uk, is what that microformat indicates
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ben_thatmustbeme
didn't show what was in the text of it
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gRegor`
Yeah, but just guessing
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ben_thatmustbeme
and i don't think thats what it means anywa
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ben_thatmustbeme
y
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ben_thatmustbeme
first off, if i understand things correctly, rel= isn't microformats markup, the microformats there just says its a url (me being pedantic)
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ben_thatmustbeme
XFN 1.1 introduced the "me" rel value which is used to indicate profile equivalence and for identity-consolidation.
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ben_thatmustbeme
it says nothing about a person being that thing, just that that link contains and equivalent profile
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gRegor`
I was only parsing the mf, not mentioning the rel
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ben_thatmustbeme
ohhh, i missed the fn
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ben_thatmustbeme
i stand corrected
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ben_thatmustbeme
although i don't think there is a problem with that
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@AlfonsoRomay
Ello recuerda mucho a Diaspora http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/sep/26/ello-anti-facebook-privacy-lgbt-social-neetwork La alternativa es la #indieweb, pero ¿es factible? http://alfonsoromay.com/2012/07/movimientos-hacia-una-web-independiente/ (twtr.io/rHy971gV68)
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ben_thatmustbeme
url tag just means the href value is a link to the homepage
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ben_thatmustbeme
http://microformats.org/wiki/hCard Examples section, tantek has that very markup
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell cweiske try logging in again to my site. I have some instrumentation now and have fixed an few small errors. might help
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor`
Yeah, I'm not sure if cr was raising a problem with that h-card or?
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tantek_otp
I read the logs and I really have no idea what cr was talking about in 90% of the statements.
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Loqi
tantek_otp: shaners left you a message 12 hours, 15 minutes ago: Homesteading is the name of the software that runs my site.
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Loqi
tantek_otp: shaners left you a message 12 hours, 15 minutes ago: Who is using just Apache with no cms / generator to serve their site?
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tantek_otp
lol
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shaners
what is otp?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "otp" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=otp
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ben_thatmustbeme
haha
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Loqi
hehe
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tantek_otp
shaners, check out /file-storage - a few folks there "just" serving static files via apache
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ben_thatmustbeme
on the ... plane?
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tantek_otp
otp = on the phone
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shaners
ah. gotcha.
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ben_thatmustbeme
i was close
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tantek_otp
pre-socialwg prep call :/
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cuibonobo
in atlanta, otp == "outside the perimeter"
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cuibonobo
a.k.a. suburbanites :3
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@bgrier
Reading: Using WordPress for IndieWeb | TechLifeWeb http://techlifeweb.com/using-wordpress-for-indieweb/ (twtr.io/rJ0AU8qcHs)
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+7) "another thing off my list" (view diff)
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reedstrm
opt == one time pad ;-)
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cr
as soon as one wants to cache, annotate, store i a graph-store, how do you know whether you mean https://waterpigs.co.uk/ the person, the web-document, or the website? by dismissing good URI-design as "complicated" you're inadvertently making things complicated
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gRegor`
cr: What URI design are you referring to?
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cr
the rel=me reusing a document/website URI for a person
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cr
how do i disambiguate? i'll rather just not consume microformats data until they stop this silly nameclash
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cr
the alternative is complicate implementations by using tons of named-graphs and annotating the named-graphs with contexts, so you can reuse the URI fore different things. but that's meh. too complicated..
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ben_thatmustbeme
cr, rel=me does not me a person is equivalent to a website
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ben_thatmustbeme
xfn just described it as a link to yourself at a different url
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gRegor`
cr: What is the use-case where you need to disambiguate something? I'm not understanding.
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gRegor`
My personal website represents me online. Why wouldn't I link to it with rel=me?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think its that he is using the body of the <a> tag as the name for the link
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ben_thatmustbeme
so instead of a user Ben and a link labelled "twitter profile" it becomes a link title "Ben" as well
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ben_thatmustbeme
thats what I get out of what he is saying
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gRegor`
ben_thatmustbeme: I'm still not understanding. :)
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snarfed
!tell ShaneHudson re G+ POSSE: http://indiewebcamp.com/Google+#POSSE
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
cr, I think you're talking yourself into making it too complicated.
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davidmead
when using POSSE for a reply, does it have to be a new post, or can it be a reply on the originating post?
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davidmead
i tried using "u-in-reply-to" but it didn’t post back to twitter
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KevinMarks_
Yes, urls are people too http://epeus.blogspot.com/2008/01/urls-are-people-too.html
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ben_thatmustbeme
davidmead, its a new post, it has to be the h-entry itself with a u-in-reply-to (if i understand what you mean)
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KevinMarks_
URIs are just notation conventions used for databases, but URLs locate resources universally, and are thus useful for humans and computers alike
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davidmead
ben_thatmustbeme, hmm. that’s what i thought. pity.
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ben_thatmustbeme
why's that?
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ben_thatmustbeme
are you using bridgy?
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ben_thatmustbeme
it makes sense though, honestly, every reply could be replied to. if the only location was in the reply-thread of a post, I would have no way to reply to your comment specifically
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davidmead
ben_thatmustbeme As the originating post is sent to Twitter, brid.gy (or similar) pulls back the replying tweet and displays as a reply to that post, I’d like to reply to that reply in the reply thread
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ben_thatmustbeme
you could reply-to both, that way its processed as a webmention internally to yourself and bridgy would still pick it up as a reply to the other reply
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KevinMarks_
I think cr should stop using English, which is semiotically impure, and communicate only with people who speak lojban
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sparverius
uh i only commute verbally in logo
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sparverius
side benefits include: not being invited to meetings, social events, generally having to interact with people in real life
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davidmead
ben_thatmustbeme I guess. it seems to me that it breaks the conversational thread between the parties
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't think so, you just are forking converstaions between parties into their own thread
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ben_thatmustbeme
plus, if you parse full reply-context history, you can see the entire conversation
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gRegor`
Each party can show the full context-thread and reply-thread, though
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ben_thatmustbeme
bam, 'context-thread' is catching on
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gRegor`
What is context-thread?
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Loqi
A reply thread (AKA reply chain) is a threaded list of replies, and replies to those replies, displayed under the original post, sometimes as part of a reply-context http://indiewebcamp.com/context-thread
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gRegor`
Hm. That's not what I think of when I say context-thread. :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i redirected it to reply-thread, since the usage had reply-thread all over
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davidmead
well that’s handy :-)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think we should fix that
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gRegor`
I think of it as everything coming before the current note in the thread.
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gRegor`
And reply-chain I think of as everything coming after the current note, in the thread.
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ben_thatmustbeme
me too
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gRegor`
Cool
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gRegor`
wonders about 'thread' vs 'chain'
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ben_thatmustbeme
thread and chain i think are the same thing
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ben_thatmustbeme
reply-chain / reply-thread and context-chain / context-thread
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ben_thatmustbeme
two different bits
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davidmead
ben_thatmustbeme grego` so maybe i’m still visualizing this “wrong” on my blog and need to think of a reply from Twitter like a new post on my site. my reply to it is a new post...
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gRegor`
Ah, I see 'reply-chain' got renamed 'reply-thread'. Sounds good.
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davidmead
the whole blog is not a post with replies attatched to it, but a series of linked replies to each other
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gRegor`
ben_thatmustbeme: Should /context-thread redirect to /reply-context instead?
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ben_thatmustbeme
gRegor` it looks like /reply-context is what set everything astray
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gRegor`
Meaning?
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gRegor`
That page is causing confusion or?
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ben_thatmustbeme
actually not sure where it began. but there is definitely confusion in there
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ben_thatmustbeme
my site is currently the only example of a context thread, but it got listed under reply-thread
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ben_thatmustbeme
which has lots of examples
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gRegor`
You're listed on both because you're displaying both
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ben_thatmustbeme
well yes, but many display reply-thread
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gRegor`
Your "context-thread" is just showing more than one /reply-context.
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ben_thatmustbeme
indeed
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gRegor`
and the full contents of those reply-contexts, too.
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ben_thatmustbeme
(i don't mess around :P)
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gRegor`
Since "in reply to [link]" is also a reply-context, many of us have a minimal reply-context
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ben_thatmustbeme
indeed, i had that for some time too
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gRegor`
So we need to get more people to list themselves on reply-thread, sounds like.
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davidmead
ben_thatmustbeme gregor` so the more i look at this the more it seems i have to look at something other than WP
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gRegor`
Gah. Ok, this *is* confusing to me:
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gRegor`
"A reply thread (AKA reply chain) is a threaded list of replies, and replies to those replies, displayed under the original post, sometimes as part of a reply-context."
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ben_thatmustbeme
davidmead, WordPress has a lot going for it, but for indieweb things its a lot of patchwork addons
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gRegor`
"sometimes as part of a reply-context" doesn't make sense to me there.
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ben_thatmustbeme
agreed
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gRegor`
But maybe it's just my not understanding the intent of those terms.
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davidmead
ben_thatmustbeme that’s what i’m finding - can’t use some of the tools like ownyorgram as WP doesn’t support micropub
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davidmead
ben_thatmustbeme i like Known but I don’t know if I can import my content into that as a direct replacement
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gRegor`
Yeah, I'm not aware of any WordPress -> Known import tools yet
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /context-thread (+180) "there is a lot of reply-thread / context-thread confusion" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is context-thread
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Loqi
A context thread (AKA context chain) is a threaded list of posts, and notes those notes replied to, displayed above the reply post, making up the reply-context http://indiewebcamp.com/context-thread
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/notes/posts
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ben_thatmustbeme
gah
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gRegor`
Hm.
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /context-thread (+0) "s/notes/posts" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
not sure on the wording of that definition, but its a start
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gRegor`
So is reply-context a generic name for a set of replies, that appears either earlier in the conversation, or later in the conversation?
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gRegor`
And we "need" more specific terms for the "earlier" and "later"?
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gRegor`
"context-thread" being the earlier, and "reply-thread" being the later?
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ben_thatmustbeme
that seems to be what i am getting out of it
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ben_thatmustbeme
wait, not
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm confusing myself
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gRegor`
Haha
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gRegor`
I'm just not sure more terms are necessary
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ben_thatmustbeme
reply-context = before and after
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ben_thatmustbeme
context-thread = before
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ben_thatmustbeme
reply-thread = after
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davidmead
"context-thread" should be the whole thing. "reply-thread" is after the post. you need another term for before the post - the thing(s) that prompted it
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davidmead
the term “reply” doesn’t make sense to me as descripbing something that came before
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ben_thatmustbeme
context-thread i would not put as the whole thing, so we really need any term for the whole thing?
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gRegor`
davidmead: It is a bit confusing, until you thiink of it as "someone else's reply"
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ben_thatmustbeme
it does, because my post is a reply, i want to my my reply in context, so i see the argument
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KevinMarks_
Context doesn't just imply history though
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davidmead
exactly KevinMarks_ to me context is viewing the whole thing
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KevinMarks_
Would history-thread be clearer?
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ben_thatmustbeme
context: noun
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ben_thatmustbeme
1.
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ben_thatmustbeme
the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: I agree with davidmead & KevinMarks_
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KevinMarks_
The challenge is deciding which path through the chain of replies is the context
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gRegor`
I kinda like history-thread
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KevinMarks_
We see this on twitter all the time, as each of us gets a different subset of the responses
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gRegor`
history-thread and reply-thread make a lot of sense to me; they're pretty self-explanatory
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KevinMarks_
There isn't a globally visible thread, that's part of the value of twitter and the open Web alike
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davidmead
so a “context-thread” is made up of “historical-thread” “post” “reply-thread”?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i've been trying to work that bit out on my site, eventually i want to pull in all replys to my posts, even if they only reply to a reply of mine that has one of my posts in its thread-history
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KevinMarks_
Enforcing bidirectionality is a bug
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bret
What are the major http://indiewebcamp.com/activity_streams implementations involved in indieweb? first thing comes to mind is https://github.com/snarfed/activitystreams-unofficial
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gRegor`
davidmead: That sounds like the understanding of context-thread based on this discussion, yes.
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bret
which is actually pretty significant
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm still not liking "historical-thread"
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gRegor`
I'm not sure I would use the term context-thread myself, though. I don't see a lot of need for it.
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gRegor`
historical-thread instead of history-thread?
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gRegor`
either sgtm
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davidmead
gregor` cool - so you can only have a “historical-thread” on your “post” if it is a reply to something else (webmention)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think reply-context is best, but without the h-entry being a reply, it doesn't really make sense
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KevinMarks_
http://epeus.blogspot.com/2004/02/technorati-xanadu-and-other-dreams.html talks about this (if you'll forgive slightly pompous ten year ago me)
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ben_thatmustbeme
how about just 'post context'
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gRegor`
"A historical-thread is a reply-context that happened before the current post."
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KevinMarks_
If you use Historical should you use contextual?
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gRegor`
"A reply-thread is a reply-context (eww, not liking this) that happened after the current post."
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ben_thatmustbeme
exactly why i didn't like 'historical'
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KevinMarks_
History+replies =context
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ben_thatmustbeme
history-thread
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ben_thatmustbeme
KevinMarks_ yes, i think that makes the most sense
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gRegor`
"A history-thread is a type of reply-context that appears before the current post and displays a thread of what the post is in-reply-to"
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davidmead
I’d be happy with “history-thread” :-)
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gRegor`
"A reply-thread is a type of reply-context that appears after the current post and displays a thread of replies to the post."
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davidmead
“historical” was me just being wordy
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay so reply-context = just the one you are in-reply-to
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gRegor`
That was not my thinking, no.
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ben_thatmustbeme
so a history thread is the series of reply-contexts
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ben_thatmustbeme
i sort of like that definition though, we know what people have been doing up til now, showing reply-context
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ben_thatmustbeme
and now we are looking at history-thread
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ben_thatmustbeme
vs displaying reply-thread
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ben_thatmustbeme
all gathered into context-thread
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teknotus
I haven't forgotten. It's just tedius.
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gRegor`
I guess /reply-context does currently imply a single item, "Popular silos (e.g. Twitter) display an entire thread of reply-contexts . . ."
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ben_thatmustbeme
it conforms to what we have been using thus far
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't want to completely yank definitions out from under everyone
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teknotus
Opps repeated previous message.
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gRegor`
Sure, makes sense
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gRegor`
In my attempts above, "A type of reply-context" could be "A series of reply-contexts" then
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ben_thatmustbeme
and a reply-thread is a series of replies
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gRegor`
Are we sticking with reply-context being a general term, regardless of where it appears in the chronology, though?
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gRegor`
reply-thread *could* be "a series of reply-contexts that appears after the current post..."
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ben_thatmustbeme
i think reply context only refers to backwards, thus reply context is the inverse of reply
#
davidmead
i prefer that gregor`
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gRegor`
Hm. This is hurting my brain. :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
lol
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davidmead
lol
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ben_thatmustbeme
definitions++
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Loqi
definitions has 1 karma
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gRegor`
I thought we kinda agreed earlier that reply-context could be before or after
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gRegor`
If it's only backwards, history-thread is kind of redundant, no?
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gRegor`
Other than being a term for multiple reply-contexts, I guess.
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ben_thatmustbeme
there is a context that i would say is the general term for before or after
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gRegor`
Alright, work calls. I will check back later.
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ben_thatmustbeme
but reply-context would be what I am directly replying to
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davidmead
but that could be your originating post couldn’t it?
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davidmead
if you’re replying as a webmention about an post elswhere
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ben_thatmustbeme
if i were replying to the original post, i would do just that
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davidmead
and how do we know how much of a “history-thread” to pull back and display?
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ben_thatmustbeme
davidmead, I go all the way back
#
davidmead
just the post you’re replying to, or the post that that’s replying too to
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ben_thatmustbeme
reply-context is 1 level back, it could be multiple entries if you have multiple in-reply-to values
#
davidmead
to the way, way back ;-)
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ben_thatmustbeme
the long, long ago
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davidmead
so we’d have a “thread” that is composed of “contexts”
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /reply-context (+7) "clearing up reply-thread confusion" (view diff)
#
Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Ben.thatmustbe.me * moved [[context-thread]] to [[history-thread]]
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davidmead
your post is the orginating object of that thread on your site
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davidmead
maybe if you adopt the ‘long now’ POV, it’s all a historical thread
#
davidmead
your post included
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ben_thatmustbeme
i am still stuck on post-context
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ben_thatmustbeme
for the entire collection
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /history-thread (-58) "clearing up reply-thread confusion" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
what is history-thread
#
Loqi
A history-thread is a threaded list of reply-contexts displayed above a reply post as part of the context-thread http://indiewebcamp.com/history-thread
#
davidmead
hmm. if you take this http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/context and replace “word or passage” with “post”…
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ben_thatmustbeme
davidmead, feel free to start fixing stuff too.
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davidmead
how do you mean?
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /reply-thread (-207) "definition did not match content" (view diff)
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anomalily
ahhh nickser
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /history-thread (+484) "some context moved from reply-thread" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
content not context
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /context-thread (+92) "definition" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
well i stubbed them out as i understand them, there are probably more places where the confusion exists. but its a start
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ben_thatmustbeme
we can always correct naming / definition
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gRegor`
For kicks, I might try setting up PESOS from Ello
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gRegor`
It would be fragile, though, just scraping the HTML
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davidmead
ben_thatmustbeme would I just add thoughts in that stub? or create a new one?
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ben_thatmustbeme
go ahead and add them in that stub if it makes sense
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gRegor`
There's a json file for each post, but it's only available if authenticated. Ah well, I probably won't bother. :)
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kylewm
gRegor`: Ello gives you access to json for each post?
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kylewm
sounds suspiciously like an API
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gRegor`
The URL indicates it is an API, actually, although private :)
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gRegor`
<a class='postbar__link postbar__edit' data-dispatch='editPost' href='/api/v1/posts/821143.json' title='Edit Post'>
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gRegor`
https://ello.co/api/v1/posts/821143.json requires authentication though.
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kylewm
interesting, they must be using that to do some ajaxy editor thing
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gRegor`
I could just scrape the <div class='post-content'> from here though: https://ello.co/gregorlove/post/gM3NTujR4h5DIE-WmUiPqQ
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gRegor`
I couludn't expose anything else poking around various /api/v1/ URLs
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KevinMarks_
So there is demand for an ello unmung?
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gRegor`
https://ello.co/gregorlove/post/0LGJ_01RwAKKrB5iDfqO1w :)
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gRegor`
Not sure what you mean, KevinMarks_
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yobj
gRegor`: did you see this? https://gist.github.com/conatus/cc665f917d5558c123bca
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gRegor`
404, yobj. But I don't think I've seen it, no.
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KevinMarks_
I made feed.unmung.com to turn feeds into h-entry
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KevinMarks_
could do ello.unmung.com too
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gRegor`
Ohh
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yobj
you're getting a 404, gRegor`? That's odd.
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KevinMarks_
Also Check out @joshu's Tweet: https://twitter.com/joshu/status/516664202685976576
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@joshu
is there a chrome extension for fixing ello's design yet? (twtr.io/rG56x23xwG)
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gRegor`
I don't know about demand. Mostly just curious how hard it would be.
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gRegor`
Also wondering, since Ello is new, if they could be more easily convinced to add some indieweb support
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gRegor`
Haha, yeah, ello is pretty wonky when clicking back.
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gRegor`
Too much AJAX
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yobj
https://ello.co/gregorlove.json
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gRegor`
My homepage URL is inexplicably messed up now, too: "p class='profile__links'>gRegorLove.com"
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gRegor`
Ooh, nice, yobj.
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gRegor`
yobj: Did the gist URL get truncated?
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yobj
https://gist.github.com/conatus/cc665f917d5558c123bc - Yes, I suppse it did, gRegor`
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bret
bear: this is neato https://conversejs.org/
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gregorlove.com
edited /Ello (+164) "/* Self-description */ +API section" (view diff)
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gRegor`
Thanks, yobj. Added it to the /Ello page
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yobj
no prob, gRegor`
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, could you check why I don't get logged in?
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Loqi
cweiske: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 3 hours, 3 minutes ago: try logging in again to my site. I have some instrumentation now and have fixed an few small errors. might help
#
cweiske
I tried to login now
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@Wordius
Re-posting yesterday’s post about creating a plain text diary via Drafts to test Webmentions http://wordius.com/plain-text-diary-using-drafts-with-write-for-ios/ (twtr.io/rJF3PvAYxb)
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gregorlove.com
edited /Ello (-50) "/* No API */ No official API" (view diff)
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cweiske
didn't work
#
gregorlove.com
edited /Ello (+4) "/* No Official API */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske, everything looks good on my end, state matches up, your auth_endpoint is just returning "Validating token failed"
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'm sending and receiving with a trailing /
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ben_thatmustbeme
everything looked good
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, do you request the second time with id or code?
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ben_thatmustbeme
i send code (that i was given), redirect_uri, client_id, and state
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ben_thatmustbeme
sent to http://indieauth.id.cweiske.de/
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cweiske
it does not find it in the db
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cweiske
let's check
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske, sent PM
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cweiske
issue fixed. was a problem on my side with indieauth-openid
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cweiske
even only 187 lines of code can contain bugs :/
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ben_thatmustbeme
i've seen programs half that large contain bugs,
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cweiske.de
edited /distributed-indieauth (+28) "/* Sites that support distributed IndieAuth */" (view diff)
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cweiske.de
edited /login-brainstorming (+118) "sites that allow login via indieauth" (view diff)
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cweiske
is there someone else apart from barbabywalters and aaronpk who implements indieauth login on his website without relying on indieauth.com?
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KevinMarks_
Did we accidentally build a monoculture?
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bear
as long as the potential for others to do the same, I would say no
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kylewm
cweiske: tantek uses a differnet implementation of RelMeAuth
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bear
s/the same/the same exists/
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Loqi
bear meant to say: as long as the potential for others to do the same exists, I would say no
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cweiske
just look at http://tantek.com/2014/259/b1/indiewebcampuk-hack-day-https-webactions
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cweiske
"Kevin Beynon got IndieAuth login to his own site working!"
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cweiske
try it. http://kevinbeynon.com/admin/indieauth_form.php redirects to indieauth.com
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kylewm
so do you think one of us needs to build a second implementation? to test the specification?
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cweiske
oh, I did the second implementation
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cweiske
there are just no clients that use it
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cweiske
because most rely on indieauth.com
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cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme and barnabywalters being the exceptiosn
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reedstrm
so, we're talking the server auth side? Haven't gotten that far, sorry :-(
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kylewm
oh I see, ben_thatmustbeme uses your authorization_endpoint if you provide one
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cweiske
yep
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kylewm
I’ll make sure to do that too
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ben_thatmustbeme
indieauth.com shows that as the simple implementation, default to indieauth.com
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ben_thatmustbeme
but yes, i had that pointed out to me, so i fixed it
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ben_thatmustbeme
btw, it is actually on my todo list to roll my own auth endpoint, just to break everyone's application who is assuming indieauth.com :)
#
tantek
ben_thatmustbeme++ for making the cutting edge bleed :)
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme has 18 karma
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tantek
now let's see about that log...
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ben_thatmustbeme
i go for the jugular
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tantek
!tell aaronpk all of tantek_ and tantek___ and tantek_otp are leftover connections from ?beta Join - server might need rebooting to let go of those connections.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
I mean, let's not inflate our channel stats ;)
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell aaronpk ben_thatmust_ is leftover too
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
tantek
!tell annevk I'm ok with a "License(s):" header section at the top similar to "This version:" that just used the same language. If you want to change the language, make a specific request and I can follow-up with Mozlegal.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
cweiske
ben_thatmustbeme, you'll only see http://fotos.cweiske.de/screenshots/2014-07-02%20indieauth%20coming%20soon.png
#
cweiske
nothing breaks
#
cweiske
you just cannot login
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ben_thatmustbeme
you cannot login is breakage
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ben_thatmustbeme
plus, thats still using indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme
it should be redirecting to my auth provider, not indieauth
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ben_thatmustbeme
as you well know
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cweiske
aaronpk's plan is that indieauth.com will once redirect to your auth provider
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cweiske
soon, that is
#
tantek
cweiske thanks for continuing to push on this (actual federation of indieauth).
#
ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, still, it centralizes everything at indieauth. If the site goes down, no one can login
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cweiske
yep
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ben_thatmustbeme
cweiske++ for not using indieauth.com
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Loqi
cweiske has 13 karma
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tantek
cweiske++ for living on the indieauth bleeding edge.
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Loqi
cweiske has 14 karma
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@fdevillamil
@t @benwerd this may interest you too bad not tagged #indieweb https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/517038432074211329 (twtr.io/rJQPqVhXfo)
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ben_thatmustbeme
i need somewhere new to push the bleeding edge of things, once i get through a few minor bits
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ben_thatmustbeme
i may try looking in to private messaging. would be something i would love to use
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tantek
!tell fdevillamil,neuro` re: https://twitter.com/fdevillamil/status/517054101793026048 not really. Not understanding the huge difference between /Twitter & /RSS is why RSS-framed publishing/sharing solutions/approaches are doomed to die a slow irrelevant death.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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ben_thatmustbeme
wow, he's pushing FOR RSS in place of Twitter? wrong direction there.
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ben_thatmustbeme
!tell KevinMarks I have my MP client set to send both syndicate-to= A, B and syndicate-to[]=A&syndicate-to[]=B so it should work for either implementation now.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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cuibonobo
ben_thatmustbeme: just tried logging in to your site but nothing happened
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cuibonobo
nothing == page refresh and no apparent change
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ben_thatmustbeme
cuibonobo, its a known issue that I don't have any sort of error msg yet
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ben_thatmustbeme
try again, i just turned debugging back on in there
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cuibonobo
just tried
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tantek
hey cuibonobo did anyone answer your question about google searching the irc logs in date ranges?
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ben_thatmustbeme
weird, its not even getting to the logging
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tantek
is still catching up on logs and various confusions
#
cuibonobo
ben_thatmustbeme: i've tried just now with a bare domain and with https, but still nothing
#
tantek
I'm confused about the reply-context confusion
#
cuibonobo
tantek: nope. but then again, figuring out why google does anything is always a mystery
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ben_thatmustbeme
cuibonobo, what URL? your site listed in irc-people doesn't have an indie-auth endpoint
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tantek
cuibonobo: FWIW I've been having trouble with google date-range search of my own site - they stopped indexing "everything" :(
#
cuibonobo
ben_thatmustbeme: ah! i've never had to list the endpoint. i assume everybody else just falls back to indieauth.com if none is listed
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cuibonobo
tantek: ugh. that sucks. have you considered doing search via javascript or something? seems like you can't depend on outsourcing to Google anymore
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tantek
yeah, it's quite annoying. I'm even using *their* PuSH hub which means they should have results for me within seconds
#
tantek
almost caught up with logs - then just need to review all the *-context and *-thread hubbub
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ben_thatmustbeme
off for the day
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ben_thatmustbeme
i'll probably be on here and there later
#
tantek
just as I was trying to get to the bottom of the reply-* confusion!
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tantek.com
created /otp (+324) "stub with dfn, see also" (view diff)
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cuibonobo
regarding how Google even gets your page's date to begin with, i thought it would be related to Last-Modified headers but nay! the search bot just does a best guess at scraping the contents of your page. :s
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tantek
cuibonobo: yes it's horrible
#
tantek
perhaps even worth documenting on /Google#Criticism
#
cuibonobo
well it's certainly a criticism if you choose to depend on them for searching your site
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tantek.com
edited /reply-context (+448) "rewrite dfn, put Twitter background in separate paragraph" (view diff)
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tantek
what is a reply context?
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Loqi
A reply context is the display of what a reply post is in reply to, including linking to that original post with in-reply-to markup, showing some amount of that original post like author name, icon, summary / ellipsed content, and datetime published http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-context
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tantek
FWIW I dislike "history-thread" because "history" implies more comprehensiveness than what is actually displayed.
#
tantek
history implies *all* replies to the original post that were made *before* the current reply post are shown, which AFAIK no one does
#
tantek
everyone that implements showing *previous* reply-contexts (both silos and indieweb) *only* recursively show the thread back to the original post - no other replies
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tantek
hence reply-thread
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tantek
!tell ben_thatmustbeme I'm not going to edit your changes to reply-thread / history-thread without first discussing with you and seeing if we can figure out what was confusing and debate which terms better reflect what is going. I updated /reply-context dfn/summary a bit - please take a look.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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emmak
tantek: as a user, do you think a full reply history would be more useful than reply context?
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KevinMarks__
hm, no way to get from ello's json to the post URL
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Loqi
KevinMarks__: ben_thatmustbeme left you a message 31 minutes ago: I have my MP client set to send both syndicate-to= A, B and syndicate-to[]=A&syndicate-to[]=B so it should work for either implementation now.
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tantek
emmak - in the example of Twitter, it's nice to be able to scroll to the top and see what tweet started the whole thing
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tantek
then if I want to see the whole reply *history*, I click on the permalink of the tweet that started the discussion, which then will display all the threads spawned
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tantek
I should say, it will display all the *comment* threads
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Loqi
fo sho
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tantek
the stuff *below* a post is /comments-presentation
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gRegor`
tantek: To make sure I'm understanding, "history" implies including replies tot he original post from third parties, that aren't in a direct chain with you?
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KevinMarks__
they do at http://stream.withknown.com/
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tantek
gRegor`: correct - there is one history
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tantek
that includes everything that happened
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KevinMarks__
er oops, that was for TysonBrooks
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tantek
the stuff *above* a *reply* post is a reply-context
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KevinMarks__
ah, so tantek is using "history" the way we were using "context" earlier
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gRegor`
I think some confusion (for me) is your use of "reply-contexts" and "reply-thread". "everyone that implements showing *previous* reply-contexts (both silos and indieweb) *only* recursively show the thread back to the original post - no other replies. hence reply-thread"
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KevinMarks__
nugger
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gRegor`
reply-thread to me is all the replies below a reply post
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tantek
nope - those are just comments
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tantek
as they would be on any other post type
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tantek
no need to call them something special reply-*
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KevinMarks__
we were trying to distinguish previous posts ("history") from subsequent posts( ("replies")
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tantek
this is what I get for being behind on distinguishing (and separating) reply vs comment :/
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tantek
reply is a reply post on its own permalink - the original
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tantek
a *comment* is a reply syndicated into the context of the thing it is in reply to
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gRegor`
What is reply-thread?
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Loqi
A reply thread (AKA reply chain) is a threaded list of replies, and replies to those replies, displayed under the original post, as part of the context-thread http://indiewebcamp.com/reply-thread
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gRegor`
^ thoroughly confused now :)
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tantek
right - that's a problematic definition
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KevinMarks__
History+replies =context
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tantek
so I can either fix that - or wait for ben_thatmustbe to debate it with him
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annevk
tantek: I moved the license to the bottom, it's per the recommendation for MediaWiki I think
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tantek
KevinMarks that makes no sense
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gRegor`
Calling them "comments" makes sense and I'm getting a better idea the terminology, though. Not sure how I forgot something so simple.
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Loqi
annevk: tantek left you a message 1 hour, 16 minutes ago: I'm ok with a "License(s):" header section at the top similar to "This version:" that just used the same language. If you want to change the language, make a specific request and I can follow-up with Mozlegal.
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annevk
tantek: see e.g. https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#acknowledgments
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KevinMarks__
for a given post
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tantek
annevk - ok. I don't know what you mean "per the recommendation for MediaWiki" but I'll take a look
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tantek
gRegor`: right, they've always been called comments
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tantek
when displayed below a post
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tantek
so don't rename that
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tantek
that's a bad idea
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gRegor`
agreed
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tantek
the only *new* notion that's being introduced is a "reply" - which is a post on its own permalink
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tantek
that happens to be in reply to some other post
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tantek
and then from there, reply-context, and multiple reply-contexts chained up to the original make a reply-thread
#
tantek
but I can see how "thread" is confusing as it can imply the entire chain(s) up and down
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annevk
tantek: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Standards/license#MediaWiki
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annevk
tantek: has slightly different text from https://wiki.mozilla.org/Standards/license#HTML
#
tantek
goes to re-read the text he wrote on the Mozilla wiki.
#
tantek
annevk - *nothing* in that text says "bottom" or specifies *location*
#
gRegor`
Twitter finally broke my old list URLs. used to be able to access at /username/list-name and it redirected to /username/lists/list-name
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tantek
annvek - in fact nothing in https://wiki.mozilla.org/Standards/license#Markup says *where* to put it - because that's likely up to the specific spec template
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gRegor`
But that redirect doesn't work now and I get a 404
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annevk
tantek: I meant "Per CC0" vs <img>
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tantek
annevk - the Per CC0 vs <img> is a default MediaWiki configuration limitation
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annevk
I didn't want <img> since a) the CC images are not licensed under CC0 and b) their SVG images are low quality
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tantek
default MediaWiki configuration disallows hotlinking external images like http://i.creativecommons.org/p/zero/1.0/80x15.png
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tantek
annevk - that's fine, I'll clarify that
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tantek
that that's ok - whether for HTML or MediaWiki
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barnabywalters
good evening indiewebcamp
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tantek
hey barnabywalters
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gRegor`
Ok, I think I've found an example to demonstrate some of my confusion, tantek.
#
tantek
you got the <indie-action> web component stuff working in shrewdness right?
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barnabywalters
currently running a batch job over shrewdness. wow there are a lot of posts in there now
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tantek
we need to document that better on /indie-config
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annevk
tantek: thanks
#
tantek
because I couldn't reproduce how to make it work
#
tantek
:(
#
gRegor`
In a twitter thread, they show more than just direct replies underneath the tweet. They also show replies-to-replies, showing the a fuller "thread". That is what I thought /reply-thread meant, at least previously. https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/516804620127961088
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@veganstraightedge
What is Tanteking?http://indiewebcamp.com/Tantek-ing (twtr.io/rGvGa1Dtd8)
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barnabywalters
tantek: actually no I didn’t get that working, mainly because that would require adding the indie-config web component code to shrewdness and it’s not very polished at the mo (if it’s even published)
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barnabywalters
I do need to update the micropub fallback markup though, to <indie-action>
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gRegor`
Including one's own replies-to-replies :)
#
tantek
gRegor`: your confusion is over-applying what reply-thread means which maybe means reply-thread is a bad term
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tantek
they're not showing replies underneath, they're showing *comments* underneat
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tantek
s/underneat/underneath
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: they're not showing replies underneathh, they're showing *comments* underneath
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barnabywalters
okay, shrewdness updated to show <indie-action> elements next to posts if you don’t have micropub enabled
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gRegor`
Ok, but it's more than just direct comments, right? I mean, it's Lilly's comment, then Shane's comment to her, then Kartik's comment to Shane, etc.
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tantek
barnabywalters: but to make <indie-action> elements work you need to do all the web components stuff that voxpelli figured out
#
barnabywalters
also at least partially fixed the URL specificity which was causing multiple http+https versions of posts
#
gRegor`
I don't know if we need a term for that concept or not, but it strikes me as different than typical comments on a blog.
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barnabywalters
tantek: well, they’ll work right now with the toolbelt
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tantek
is voxpelli still around? because so far he may be the only who got <indie-action> web components *working* on his site
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barnabywalters
I can also potentially add the web component into shrewdness
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tantek
barnabywalters: of course they do :) the point was to get more folks trying what voxpelli got working
#
tantek
so we can see if a web component solution actually scales across different implementations etc.
#
tantek
gRegor`: the stuff below a post is just comments. not "different than typical comments on a blog".
#
gRegor`
I'm not explaining my thoughts well.
#
kylewm
the indie-config stuff was pretty non-trivial
#
barnabywalters
!tell voxpelli did you publish your indie-action webcomponent code anywhere? I’d love to add it to shrewdness for people who don’t have micropub enabled!
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
gRegor`
https://twitter.com/veganstraightedge/status/516805482468483073 is not a comment on the tweet above. It's a commont on Lilly's comment on the tweet above. It's a threaded conversation.
#
@veganstraightedge
@anomalily @t Praise be to @kyle_wm! (twtr.io/rGva3zr7XD)
#
barnabywalters
kylewm: on your own site it’s actually pretty straightforward. Once I’ve got it enabled in shrewdness I’ll write a how-to
#
tantek
kylewm: yes - we need to improve the documentation there, but that starts with getting a second implementation
#
tantek
gRegor`: right, twitter does not show indentation for nested comments
#
kylewm
barnabywalters: I started an implementation at the bottom of https://kylewm.com/static/js/main.js
#
kylewm
it is commented out because right now it loads eagerly; if I remember correctly it’s because it did not use the web-components library
#
kylewm
(registering the actual web+action handler on the other hand *was* straight forward)
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barnabywalters
kylewm: ah yeah that’s what I was referring to (e.g. https://waterpigs.co.uk/indie-config.html)
#
barnabywalters
haven’t even tried implementing the other half yet
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tantek
right, there's the <indie-action> half, and the registering the web+action: handler half
#
tantek
the web+action: half others have gotten to work, e.g. aaronpk
#
tantek
but the <indie-action> web component / iframe etc. half no one else has gotten working
#
cuibonobo
i think i get what gRegor` is saying. calling the entire tweet thread "comments" implies that all these tweets are commenting on the tweet at the top, but they're not.
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adactio
There's actually one other little thing we should be doing on the JavaScript side for <indie-action> and that's registering it as a new element (different to registering an action/handler):
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adactio
document.registerElement('indie-action');
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tantek
cuibonobo - but that's what people on reddit and slashdot call the full set
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kylewm
adactio: *anybody* who has <indie-action> tags should be doing that?
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tantek
all of the (nested) comments are thought of as "comments" on the original post in some way
#
tantek
adactio - do you understand how voxpelli got <indie-action> web components working?
#
adactio
kylem: Technically, yes (for it to qualify as a custom element). In practice, I'm not sure how much difference it makes.
#
tantek
because AFAIK no one else does (besides voxp )
#
adactio
tantek: can you point me to his implementation?
#
tantek
pulls out his blog post
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gRegor`
Yeah, that is what I meant, cuibonobo. And it may not need any term other than "comments", sure.
#
kylewm
there is this https://gist.github.com/voxpelli/b448e9d095f655000a46 but it is missing the web-components bits
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tantek
adactio: it *was* on http://voxpelli.com/ but now viewing source I don't see it any more :(
#
adactio
tantek: hmmm...
#
tantek
not sure why he took it out
#
kylewm
adactio: tantek: that gist is pretty much the same as http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config#How_to_load_someones_indie-config
#
tantek
!tell voxpelli could you provide the URL where you have (had?) <indie-action> markup plus web componenets support e.g. with reply and pay actions?
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
gRegor`
Perhaps /reply-thread could be renamed /reply-context-thread then, since it clarifies it's multiple reply-contexts, not replies (aka "comments")
#
kylewm
tantek: it’s there on the post permalink pages
#
tantek
gRegor`: from this discussion I'm convinced that the term "thread" is already overloaded and is thus the source of confusion
#
gRegor`
Definitely talk to ben_thatmustbeme about this, though. I think he has a better handle on it since he's actually implemented it.
#
@beezeebooks
RT @thesuzettebrown: TY D/load successful - ONE more day *FREE* http://linkis.com/www.smashwords.com/b/rvuzg Code: JL98G #RRBC #amreading @beezeebooks @IndieAuth… (twtr.io/rJYkdUfZRN)
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tantek
kylewm: good find! looks like he is using <script type="text/javascript" src="/js/x-tag-components.js"></script>
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gRegor`
Interesting.
#
gRegor`
For me, I think the -thread suffix makes it clearer that it's one or more of that thing.
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tantek
which is not mentioned anywhere on http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config !
#
tantek
a-ha - I think that's the missing piece
#
kylewm
tantek: yeah that bit was the part I was not willing to dive into when I tried to implement
#
tantek
kylewm - as the site *registering* the web+action: handler - you shouldn't have to
#
tantek
that x-tag stuff is only needed for those that *publish* <indie-action> elements
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kylewm
tantek: I want to do both
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tantek
hmm - this might be enough to reverse engineer and get it working
#
tantek
but I think it would work better side-by-side rather than over IRC
#
tantek
pairing as it were
#
tantek
hmm perhaps I can talk benwerd into adding registering of web+action handling to Known
#
tantek
kylewm - were you able to get your registering of web+action handling with say http://voxpelli.com/2014/08/back-to-the-startup-world/ ?
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kylewm
tantek: yes
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tantek
kylewm based on that knowledge, can you add to http://indiewebcamp.com/indie-config ?
#
tantek
i.e. add an "IndieWeb Examples" section and document your implementation
#
kylewm
sure, I can/will do that
#
tantek
let's start with that
#
tantek
and we can document voxpelli's example page(s) with <indie-action> too
#
tantek
gRegor`: let's drop *thread* it's too often confusing
#
tantek
to some it implies bidirectionality
#
tantek
and gets even more confusing when combined with reply- (my fault)
#
tantek
so for now I'm going to start referring to showing more than one reply-context as showing reply-contexts recursively
#
gRegor`
So go back to calling it reply-chain?
#
tantek
I think that's only slightly less confusing that reply-thread
#
tantek
chain can also imply bidirectionality to some
#
tantek
I'm saying none of those are good (all are confusing and/or inaccurate/imprecise). reply-thread reply-chain history-thread history-chain
#
tantek
whereas "recursive reply-contexts" is quite specific
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gRegor`
ok
#
tantek
assuming that reasoning makes sense to you, let's wait for ben_thatmustbe to get back and see if it makes sense with him
#
tantek
and then we can do edits
#
gRegor`
recursive reply-contexts sounds good for reply-contexts going back beyond the in-reply-to, sure.
#
gRegor`
What is recursion?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "recursion" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=recursion
#
KevinMarks__
so, ello's json is crap. parsing their html would make more sense
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KevinMarks__
http://feed.unmung.com/ello?ello=kevinmarks
#
tantek
in other news - no other comments / follow-ups re: "vouch" webmention protocol extension - does that mean everyone's convinced or just waiting for user-flow and protocol-flow diagrams? ;)
#
tantek
what is vouch?
#
Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "vouch" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?action=edit&title=vouch
#
bret
didn't fully follow the irc log :/
#
bret
should comb through it more
#
tantek.com
created /vouch (+472) "stub with dfn, to do, see also" (view diff)
#
tantek
bret - that would be great. also ok to lazy evaluate and await /vouch to be filled out with more readable prose description that separate statements in IRC
#
tantek
s/that separate/than separate
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Loqi
tantek meant to say: bret - that would be great. also ok to lazy evaluate and await /vouch to be filled out with more readable prose description than separate statements in IRC
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bret
currently fighting a GCC compiler
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KevinMarks__
we need to tantek tantek into writing vouch up on the wiki
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gRegor`
KevinMarks: Is feed.unmung.com open source?
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KevinMarks__
yes
#
gRegor`
I just tried it with the RSS feed I had to wrestle with a couple weeks ago and it worked pretty well.
#
gRegor`
It didn't capture multiple dc:creator elements, but otherwise good.
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KevinMarks__
examples welcomed - there is a lot of variation in feeds and I need to add moe to the template to expose them
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KevinMarks__
hm, I need to nuke the .pyc
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KevinMarks__
https://github.com/kevinmarks/unmung
#
gRegor`
Posted an issue
#
KevinMarks__
I need to add 304 handling really
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KevinMarks__
and memcached
#
@davidmead
Yes! Finally beat @warrenellis to using a new piece of the web first ;-) /cc @erinjo @withknown @benwerd #indieweb (twtr.io/rJbcvc1oaC)
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@npdoty
@joeld regarding DDoS mitigation, I've proposed a change to the webmention spec that I think would help: https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/35 (twtr.io/rJgp6MuM54)
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KartikPrabhu
oh hai Loqi
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tantek
Loqi missed whatever you guys said since 17:05
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Loqi
is done
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tantek
apparently
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tantek
also between 16:07 and 17:05 - or was it just quiet then?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: we did talk since 17:05 I can provide logs to update Loqi
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KartikPrabhu
if i figue out how to get logs out of my client
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: cool - don't worry for now - aaronpk was here so he has backups
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KartikPrabhu
cool
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tantek
but was it really quiet between 16:07 and 17:05?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: Loqi missed everything but tweets between 16:01 and 17:17
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tantek
!tell npdoty your X-Forwarded header usage proposal https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/35 sounds interesting, could you add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Brainstorming along with a sample curl command line that shows how to do it?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: npdoty added it here: http://indiewebcamp.com/DDOS#Forward_originating_IP_address
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npdoty
indeed I did
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Loqi
npdoty: tantek left you a message 54 seconds ago: your X-Forwarded header usage proposal https://github.com/converspace/webmention/issues/35 sounds interesting, could you add it to http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Brainstorming along with a sample curl command line that shows how to do it?
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tantek
but that's too far out of the way. actual spec changes should go on #brainstorming
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npdoty
thanks, Loqi, I saw
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tantek
on /Webmention
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npdoty
sure, I can add it there too
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: one naive I idea I had was, when A sends a webmention to B, A could include a "secret_code" in the POST request, which B can use while using GET to verify the mention by A, then A allows access only if the secret_code matches .... ?
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: ^ also see :)
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KartikPrabhu
similar to authorization codes in micropub
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: for private posts?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: no for preventing DDOS type things
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tantek
but I'm thinking that could work for webmentions from private posts where you want the receiver of the webmention to be able to verify it
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KartikPrabhu
afaik a third party won't have these secret codes right? if both parties are using HTTPS
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: downside - "secret_code" enables MASSIVE per receiver spamming
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KartikPrabhu
so the DDOS attacker will fail due to not having a secret code
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: but if I send the code through HTTPS only to the people I want to webmention... ?
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kylewm
doesn’t a GET request for the same URL work without a secret code?
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tantek
i.e. if I set secret_code to same as target, then I can webmention EVERYONE and simply include a temporary link to secret_code in EVERY response to a query with a secret_code
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tantek
presto - I've just faked my way to showing up on *everybody's* posts without including links back to them
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: hmm I was thinking the webmention receiver only does a GET if it gets a secret_code with it
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npdoty
KartikPrabhu, in the DDOS attack, the attacker is the one who sent the ping (he acts as sender, or person A), so he would choose the secret code
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: that's my point - that's the scenario in which the abuser wins
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KartikPrabhu
npdoty: yup and the attckers code does not match the one I have set, so I reject the GET equest immediately
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tantek
receiver does a GET with the secret_code in it, and sender includes in the reply a custom HTML page that includes a link to secret_code which happens to be the same as target. then receiver goes oh there's my target, verified.
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ben_thatmust_1
/nick ben_thatmust__
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ben_thatmust_1
well then
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: you're missing the point, the attacker *is* the one that set the secret_code in the first place
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: aaah i see, if the sender changes the HTML based on secret code... yes, it is a spam waiting to happen... i did not think of that :)
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ben_thatmust_1
so reading back i agree comments are what we get in response to a post
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tantek
yw :)
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ben_thatmust_1
a reply is a post with in-reply-to
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tantek
yay ben_thatmustbeme !
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Loqi
giggles
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ben_thatmust_1
thread has been confusing things
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KartikPrabhu
judas priest there are too many ben... s to auto complete right now
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ben_thatmust_1
but so has "context"
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ben_thatmust_1
since in the dictionary definition, a context is both text before and after
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KartikPrabhu
did not follow that discussion but for me "context" is posts that this post is in response to, and "response" is the responses to this post
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ben_thatmust_1
i didn't really like the term history for the recursive in reply-to chain
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tantek
if we know the context, then what is the protext ?
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tantek
;)
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KartikPrabhu
is that a word?
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ben_thatmust_1
oh god, KartikPrabhu, no more terms to confuse us
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KartikPrabhu
lol :P
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ben_thatmust_1
just like the oposite of congress is progress?
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ben_thatmust_1
s/opo/oppo/
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Loqi
ben_thatmust_1 meant to say: just like the opposite of congress is progress?
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KartikPrabhu
and the opposite of contest is protest ?
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ben_thatmust_1
in-reply-to chain is the least ambiguous i can think of
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ben_thatmust_1
we drop any "history" as it doesn't make sense
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmust_1: not to worry, you guys can decide the "best" terminology for the wiki and I can keep using what makes sense to me on my site #indieweb ;)
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: I suggest we drop all *-thread history-* and *-chain
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ben_thatmust_1
honestly, i am not sure any of these threads need their own page.
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ben_thatmust_1
exactly
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tantek
well that would be my fault
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ben_thatmust_1
and only refer to recursive reply-context ?
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tantek
plural
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tantek
recursive reply-contexts
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KartikPrabhu
i've been known to violate an indieweb definition or two anyway
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ben_thatmust_1
or 'full reply context'
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tantek
thus keeping it clear that reply-context is *one*
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npdoty.name
edited /webmention (+966) "/* Brainstorming */ using x-forwarded-for to mitigate DDoS abuse" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust_1
good point
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tantek
I'd avoid "full" as it presume you have full knowledge of something
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tantek
just as "new xyz" is bad and "old xyz" is bad
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npdoty
tantek, done.
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tantek
everything old was new once, and everything new becomes old eventually.
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tantek
such are temporally fragile naming
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ben_thatmust_1
now i'll just have to implement mine to pull in all replies to anything in the recursive reply-contexts
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ben_thatmust_1
just to screw things up :)
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Loqi
[[Special:Log/move]] move * Tantek.com * moved [[history-thread]] to [[recursive reply-contexts]]
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tantek.com
edited /reply-context (+101) "/* history thread */ recursive reply-contexts" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__
KartikPrabhu: example of URL that is different with a slash: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/ vs http://indiewebcamp.com/irc
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KartikPrabhu
aah yes that is what I was looking for :) ty
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tantek.com
edited /context-thread (-82) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /context-tread (+10) "r" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__
tantek - it's not about temporally fargile, it's talking about it in ralation to the post you're displaying
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KevinMarks__
it things in its past that it is a response to, and things that happened later that responded to it
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tantek
KevinMarks you're confusing two threads here in IRC :P
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KevinMarks__
maybe thats why this is getting so messy
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tantek
naming errors:
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tantek
using "full" - presumes you have full knowledge of something
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ben_thatmust__
ack, just lost a good chuch of that conversation from a reload
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tantek
using "new something" - everything new becomes old eventually
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tantek
using "old something" - everything old was new once, and do you mean the most recent old something or the older old something?
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tantek
combining those last two: both "new something" and "old something" are temporally fragile naming errors
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KevinMarks__
agreed
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KevinMarks__
I was talking about history vs context vs replies
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kylewm
definitely still living with a NewGraphArranger class from 2008
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tantek.com
edited /recursive_reply-contexts (+284) "update phrasing" (view diff)
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tantek
KevinMarks, enjoy: https://www.google.com/search?q="new+new+new+thing"
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: ok I think I fixed it all - please review. :) /reply-context and /recursive_reply-context
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tantek.com
created /recursive_reply-context (+38) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /reply-context (+12) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ recursive reply-contexts" (view diff)
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KevinMarks__
nice http://mattchamlee.withknown.com/2014/indieweb-and-syndicating-yourself-posse
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ben_thatmust__
that looks a lot cleaner
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KevinMarks__
so indieweb it hurts: http://tilde.club/~ford/
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KartikPrabhu
that might also be the picture anti-indieweb people have to the indieweb
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+154) "in-reply-to hack, and error messages completed" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+0) "sorting TODO list" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust__
wew, knocking out more of my todo list
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tantek.com
edited /MySQL (-137) "/* Ben Werdmuller */ nope. MongoDB" (view diff)
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tantek.com
edited /MongoDB (+17) "benwerd is a current MongoDB user, but plans on switching" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust__
he's been planning on switching for quite some time if I remember
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kylewm
mko was making mongo sound pretty great the other day
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ben_thatmust__
tantek, reading back on this vouch stuff now... haven't gotten all the way through it, but wouldn't it only take one person who has auto accepting webmentions to be able to spam everyone in their friends network
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ben_thatmust__
or rather, once one spam link gets it, it could spread to all that site's friends, and then that sites, friends. and once that is accomplished you basically have the task of trying to fight a virus
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ben_thatmust__
in the human body sense that is
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ben_thatmust__
i think an XFN 'friend list' would be useful, then you know its not some errant link or a "look at this site, its funny but also has spam" link
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KartikPrabhu
is adactio.com down for anyone else?
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GWG
KartikPrabhu: Not working for me
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KartikPrabhu
time to send a DM... wish I had private posts working already
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ben_thatmust__
KartikPrabhu, me too, that should get interesting though and probably tie in to a list of contacts idea
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KartikPrabhu
yes and indieauth :) only see post if you login with your domain
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KartikPrabhu
seems I can't DM adactio on twitter because he does not follow me... interesting
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ben_thatmust__
well yes, but i mean, its annoying if i want to send a message to someone or worse multiple people, I have to look up their url constantly
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ben_thatmust__
it would be nice to just have a drop down and say "post this privately to A,B,and C"
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmust__ : of course. same as auto-linking in notes :)
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KartikPrabhu
how would one send a private webmention?
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ben_thatmust__
auto-linking in notes?
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ben_thatmust__
you send a webmention but when the server pulls that page, it returns a
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ben_thatmust__
actually
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ben_thatmust__
there is a wiki page
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GWG
http://indiewebcamp.com/indieweb-messaging
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KartikPrabhu
ben_thatmust__: yeah you @mention someone in a note and it auto-links to the appropiate profile fom your address book
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ben_thatmust__
ahh i see
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ben_thatmust__
that would be cool
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KartikPrabhu
kylewm: already does this. should work the same for private posting :)
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ben_thatmust__
/indieweb-messaging has you polling twice for every request. I really wish there were some way to say in the webmention 'this is a priv message, i'll need an auth key'
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ben_thatmust__
you could infer it from it being a reply to a private post, but thats all
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ben_thatmust__
alternatively i could just always include the auth keys when polling from a site I have a key for, but then i don't know what ones are private or public
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KevinMarks_
Can't it day so in the header?
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kylewm.com
edited /indie-config (+1225) "/* See Also */ poorly written stab at documenting the indieweb examples so far" (view diff)
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ben_thatmust__
saying that its private
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ben_thatmust__
certainly, just need something standard for that. I know a number of people don't like to do things in the http headers as they cannot do that on static sites, but it could be done in meta tags or in microformats perhaps
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ben_thatmust__
i wouldn't mind showing the viewers of the post that it was intended for them and someone else
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ben_thatmust__
or do you mean the webmention say that its private when it sends
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ben_thatmust__
anyway, its late here, i should get to bed
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tantek
ben_thatmustbeme: you mean you're not already linking with rel=follow to external reply permalinks in your comments display?
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tantek
I should have clarified, a rel=nofollow link from C to A does not count as a vouch
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Loqi
agreed.
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tantek
I love it when Loqi double-checks my protocols. :)
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Loqi
grins profusely
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acegiak
tantek: did my webmention for this get to you? http://acegiak.net/2014/09/30/tantek-com-braindumped-vouch-webmention-antispam-protocol-extension-indiewebcamp-comirc2014-09-28t1411927207068-thoughts-httpindiewebcamp-comirctodaybetabottom-tantek/
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tantek
good q - have to check my webmention.io :)
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tantek
verified 2014-09-30T13:20:31+00:00!
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acegiak
cool
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tantek
acegiak - in short - it makes it: 1. less work on the part of the receiver.
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tantek
2. allows a *dynamic* 2nd degres to comment on your stuff - beyond XFN tree whitelist
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KartikPrabhu
acegiak: sounds sot of like the objection i was making against "vouch"
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KartikPrabhu
just like I don't go back and see if my comment passed moderation or not, it is unlikely that i'll go back, look for a suitable vouch and resend a webmention
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acegiak
tantek: oh. i get it in the context of manually adding webmentions
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acegiak
tantek: can you explain the dynamic bit a little more?
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tantek
it's dynamic because every day people you've linked to in the past, themselves link to new folks all the time - thus dynamic. even if you're not doing anything yourself.
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acegiak
tantek: ah ok. so you're suggesting that non-xfn links also count
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tantek
bingo
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tantek
non-rel-nofollow links
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acegiak
ahhh
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tantek
:)
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tantek
the point is you can *still* moderate, delete, block *after* that
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tantek
this is just to auto-filter all the obvious spams from people you don't know who are just trolling you for linkbacks etc.
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tantek
it won't stop people you sort of know from spamming you - the response to that is to give them a hard time socially. that is, if you have a social tie with them already, them spamming you is straining that social tie
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tantek
and that aspect no code/protocol will deal with - you have to deal with that human to human
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acegiak
yeah
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acegiak
oh my god
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acegiak
"Why doesn't whisperfollow seem to be pulling anything from mf2 pages?"
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acegiak
if there's no rss feed detected it calls the mf2 parsing function on the bookmark
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acegiak
and then the function attempts to parse... the rss feed
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acegiak
ugh
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tantek
wat
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KartikPrabhu
what is whisperfollow?
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Loqi
WhisperFollow is a WordPress based social reader create by acegiak that currently supports H-Entry, RSS, Atom and PubSubHubbub http://indiewebcamp.com/Whisperfollow
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KartikPrabhu
reader for Wordpress nice
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acegiak
I've become addicted to it though
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GWG
acegiak: Addictive dogfooding...hmmm...
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acegiak
like in a "checks every few minutes" way
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GWG
Sounds like Flappy ird
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GWG
Bird
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tantek
you created your own dopamine hook ;)
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acegiak
apparently!
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acegiak
GWG: if you're using it I'll push a fix for the mf2 thing shortly
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GWG
I haven't had a chance. Been busy
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acegiak
EXCELLENT! so you won't have been disappointed by that stupid bug
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GWG
I tried it for a moment, temporarily disabling Semantic Linkbacks
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acegiak
GWG: I pushed a fix to both for the collision
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GWG
acegiak: By the way, more people seem to be using the Taxonomy plugin
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acegiak
awesome!
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GWG
Have to figure out what's next.
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acegiak
GWG: is there something you want it to do that it doesn't do at the moment?
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GWG
Well, I want to redesign the theming to be a bit more flexible.
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GWG
I have some random thoughts about changing the way the automatic content embed works.
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acegiak
ah ok
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GWG
I want to refine it, and add in the ability to build other things off it.
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voxpelli
!tell tantek,barnabywalters,kylewm My quick stab at a web component using X-Tags can be found here: https://github.com/voxpelli/indie-action-component Not sure if X-Tags is the right way to go, Polymer might be preferable. (Or perhaps a non-Web Component polyfill)
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Loqi
voxpelli: barnabywalters left you a message 8 hours, 25 minutes ago: did you publish your indie-action webcomponent code anywhere? I’d love to add it to shrewdness for people who don’t have micropub enabled!
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Loqi
voxpelli: tantek left you a message 8 hours, 12 minutes ago: could you provide the URL where you have (had?) <indie-action> markup plus web componenets support e.g. with reply and pay actions?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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voxpelli
Was that the right way to have loqi deliver a message to multiple people?
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Loqi
:)
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@rizzardcore
SOME #indiedev and #indiegame and #indiegames and #indieweb people are some of the worst fucking people on earth... https://twitter.com/rizzardcore/status/517202763051433984/photo/1 (twtr.io/rKHWA5pDt4)
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@TheIndieSloth
RT @rizzardcore: SOME #indiedev and #indiegame and #indiegames and #indieweb people are some of the worst fucking people on earth... http:/… (twtr.io/rKHWEjnf5M)
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@indiegamesdevel
RT @rizzardcore: SOME #indiedev and #indiegame and #indiegames and #indieweb people are some of the worst fucking people on earth... http:/… (twtr.io/rKHZdxGWw0)
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@GameDevRobot
RT @rizzardcore: SOME #indiedev and #indiegame and #indiegames and #indieweb people are some of the worst fucking people on earth... http:/… (twtr.io/rKHmRzNXAw)
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Loqi
[mention] https://brid-gy.appspot.com/rsvp/facebook/724885424/1566815933547350/1298010021 linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/events/2014-09-24-homebrew-website-club (webmention)
(or join via IRC, Matrix, or Slack)