Tag, You're It was a session at IndieWebCamp West 2020.
Notes archived from etherpad: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/tag-youre-it
IndieWebCamp West 2020
Session: Tag You're It
When: 2020-06-27 14:30
- David Shanske (facilitator)
- Jacky Alciné
- Grant Richmond
- Maxwell Joslyn (notetaker)
- Ryan Barrett
- Scott Gruber
- Chris Aldrich
- Tantek Çelik
- David Shanske (facilitator)
- One of the common relationships you'll find in various platforms is the ability to mention/tag or otherwise refer to people in a post. There are several elements needed to make this work smoothly on your own site.
- Nickname Caches - a contact list where you can tag people without having to type out their entire URL...such as @johndoe
- Tagging/Mentioning People in Posts - how to publish
- Salmentions for tagging
- Homepage Tag/Mentions
- What would a simple UI look like?
- +1 Grant Richmond
- +1 Jacky Alciné - I have a rough implementation similar to Twitter tagging via nickname-cache
- +1 Manton Reece
- +1 Ryan Barrett
- +1 gRegor Morrill
- +1 Tantek Çelik - have tried to implement and encourage this, can speak to some of the UX challenges
- +1 Chaitanya
- GWG I have mentions coming, i have tags coming, and I don't know what to do with them
- "nobody [in this talk] feels like they have tis under control on their site"
there are homepage webmentions person tags in a post publishing and receiving those two things (via wm) "you send someone a tag, for their post" - "most exotic" Ryan Barrett
- person tag
mark the url of a person, as a category. the same or similar to tagging a post with a category that describes the post's content a person reference is a reference by someone's homepage URL all person tags are preson mentions, perosn mentions are not all person tags GWG convened session to see what otehrs are doing in terms of UI, GWG has nickname cache: once you've mentioend someone before, it stores their name (other info?) so you don't have to go look them up (your website stores them somehow) Tantek:
person-tag Had to keep a manual plain text nicknames cache - would copy paste markup to tag people Uses bridgy for syndicating photos - goal was to cause personal site markup to syndicate as FB person tags Had to tag people with their identites at mutiple silos Format: Bob (t, fb, flckr) , Jill (t) , Joe (t, fb), etc. - w/ each of those items in parentheses being a link to their identity What is the right way to do multi-destinatio person tag? which is displayable on site, machine readable, person readable "What I have is crude - please innovate- but hte markup is clear" Not everyone wants to have their identies correlated across paltforms. Good way to check whether someone wants that done? se what they have linked their personal site to (a la rel=me) or whether their silo X links to their website
Jacky has nickname cache of person-name shortcuts; had only one URL per person; couldn' tmake it work with Twitter profiles; too much manual work, and stopped doing it altogether Tantek: it feels like a lot of effort to do if nobody is consuming person tags GWG gets notifications when he gets person tagged, but he's not sure what to DO with them...
"how to posse tags to Twitter photos even though there's no documented API?" "What is reasonable way to syndicate tags to POSSE targets?" "How can easier UIs be made to add person tags to post?" "What is the point of receiving person tags? What can incoming pereson tags be used for other than "hey.... someone mentioned you"?"
Two seaprate things for two results: on website you tag with URL, on twitter you tag with twitter handle
MJ: pre-syndication from your website, visit someone's homepage, then check their rel=me links to find their profiles. if you are syndicating to a silow here tthey
u-uid vs u-url (tantek can you expand?)
Tantek psoted some notes in the chat at 2:52 PM if someone can link to those in here Tantek wanted to move person tags to the frot of Tweets [do I have this right?] so that Bridgy syndicatio nwouldn't cut htem off when truncating a post to fit into twitter char limit but would have been too much to code (?) Tantek: person-tag to do for me: https://indieweb.org/Falcon#person_tags
posted last night's eat your own cooking party with person tags, on his website (https://boffosocko.com/2020/06/26/55772733/) then manually possed to twitter. which meant he could tag everyone in the post who he had twitter handles for AND who did not prevent that behavior ... url and ID would like to suck in data from tantek's site to display as h card, stay updated with changes to tantek's site, be useable as a tag or as a source of silo handle/url when posseing to that silo ...
mentioned [Quotebacks](https://quotebacks.net/) a tool that makes it easy to grab snippets of text from around the web and convert them into embeddable blockquote web components.
does bridgy check h card tags to see twitter urls? ryan: it does that for like of, reply to: it'll fetch data form their url it doesn't do that for tags, mentions
GWG has gigantic piece of paper from Berlin Camp, describing potential use of websub to keep track of h-card updates so I could keep a name cache synced
Tantek suggets proceeding cautiously - there's a default "I'm just gonna put someone's tag out there" (sometimes implicitly because the poster themself woudln't care if someone would tag them) There's no "tag consent" protocol, nor is there a "(request for) untagging this post" protocol. This (untag request) should be trivial for end user to create. Systems responding to such request should then respect it both on website and on posse copies
nowhere defining mf2 properties
Ben Roberts: has not done any kind of processing others into his site, but does do so internally to form a private contacts list. This could be useful to tie together comments from people on your site.
On a silo if you click someone's name you can see all a lot of stuff tha thas them tagged, or go to their profile. On indieweb if you click someone's person tag you (probably) go to their website
Does right to forget in EU allow removing posts tha tindividual doesnt want published? David gets a trumpet everytime person tags him ... GDPR and similar dont usually apply to small personal sites
- Grant Richmond - Mention UI in PostrChild browser extension
We're missing enough examples of vulnerable people and their experiences to be able to do a design a the moment.
How can we do private person tagging? Once generated, send a webmention/autoauth/private so the other person can approve it programmatically. Or Auth set up to let others see the internal meta data to approve/disapprove a tag?
3 typical levels: private (just you), friends only (what most silos call "private" or "restricted"), public another varfiable: indexability in search hybrid content: post a photo publicly and maybe there are "friends only" tags Tantek Çelik described recreating something that sounds like he is reinventing Google+ circles.
tantek: indieweb means "we can optimize for respect instead of clicks" scott: photo release forms let you consent to reuse in current and future technologies ... that's way too broad. we can do better
Some Indigenous cultures used memory based progression of knowledge that individuals had to earn to be a member of. Going outside "mores" of the village resulted in being banned "beyond the pale". Is there a way to build something like this into IndieWeb tech. Added onto vouch perhaps?
Jamie Tanna's usage of tagging
Jamie Tanna, until recently, could only @-mention someone's URL or their Twitter URL. Since https://www.jvt.me/posts/2020/03/22/at-mention-people/ he can now provide silo-aware mentioning, which is based on Micropub contacts support (https://www-api.jvt.me/micropub?q=contact)
If he is only interacting with someone on Twitter, he sends a note with a Twitter profile URL, i.e. https://twitter.com/JamieTanna, and his Micropub server will rewrite that to @JamieTanna on Twitter syndication.
See https://php.microformats.io/?url=https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2020/06/6aova/ for an example of silo-aware @-mentions, and https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2020/05/ze2ti/ for Twitter-only mentions.