#indiewebcamp

2015-07-25

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Loqi
[mention] Matthias Pfefferle posted 'Bild von: https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-review#This_Is_A_Movement Tantek Çelik fasst in einem Artikel die Highlights der IndieWeb Bewegung...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-review#This_Is_A_Movement (http://notizblog.org/2015/07/25/indiewebcamp-2014-this-is-a-movement/)
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@pfefferle
IndieWebCamp 2014 – This is a movement http://notizblog.org/2015/07/25/indiewebcamp-2014-this-is-a-movement/ (twtr.io/1208nVa4sUo)
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Loqi
[mention] Matthias Pfefferle posted 'Bild von: https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-review#This_Is_A_Movement Tantek Çelik fasst in einem Artikel die Highlights der IndieWeb Bewegung...' linking to https://indiewebcamp.com/ (http://notizblog.org/2015/07/25/indiewebcamp-2014-this-is-a-movement/)
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@CoderScot
RT @jarofgreen: I'm awake and showered this early after a crazy week. #indiewebcamp Edinburgh better be good. http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (Still… (twtr.io/120936Z0PFC)
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indie-visitor
Hi all, somebody around to discuss a question about h-entry?
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indie-visitor
Nobody around? What's best time to ask a question, in Holland it's in the morning now.
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KartikPrabhu
hey indie-visitor wassup?
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@harry_reeder
@jarofgreen Yup, an early Saturday for me too. Bag packed and just about ready to roll towards #indiewebcamp Edinburgh :) (twtr.io/120ALkbEmKj)
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indie-visitor
Hey Kartik
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KartikPrabhu
so what is your question on h-entry. lets see if I can help
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petermolnar.eu
edited /Flickr (+46) "/* Peter Molnar */" (view diff)
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KartikPrabhu
also you can set your nickname using /nick youname if you want to
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indie-visitor
I'm trying to answer this question for myself: should I use hentry/h-entry on normal pages, since I consider this not as 'datestamped content'. A lot of WordPress themes don't think about this and just use it, but because a page doesn't output a 'author' and 'published' this is giving errors in Google Webmaster Tools. I can now go two directions: add this information (because it is correct to have this info on pages) or r
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indie-visitor
(since it's not datestamped content)
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KartikPrabhu
what is h-entry?
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Loqi
h-entry is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up blog posts on web sites https://indiewebcamp.com/h-entry
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KartikPrabhu
I just asked that so Loqi will answer with a link
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Loqi
grins profusely
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indie-visitor
Yes, but on the microformat IRC I got this about hentry/h-entry for pages: I don't think it's incorrect to mark up pages with h-entry or hentry (the indiewebcamp.com wiki marks up every article with it)
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KartikPrabhu
indie-visitor: yes I saw that on the microformats IRC
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indie-visitor
But I'm trying to understand that becausing reading the microformats docs I just don't get it...
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KartikPrabhu
I agree with kylewm's answer there. Since there isn't anyone who consumes pages, it does no harm to mark it up with h-entry
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KartikPrabhu
on the other hand, even if you don't mark it up it is fine too :)
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KartikPrabhu
indie-visitor: all of this depends on why you want to mark up pages in the first place
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KartikPrabhu
for instance, is there someone who parses your static pages for microformats? to what end?
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indie-visitor
To be honest I do it only to benefit our search results, and for that I'm already into schema.org as well. But it doesn't harm to have hentry/h-entry included as well (Google reads this), but having it on pages Google gives errors because of the missing 'author' and 'published'. Although I'm quite sure these errors are not that important as well, I'm think I'm best of just removing hentry/h-entry markup from pages.
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indie-visitor
Pages are not included in XML feeds as well.
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indie-visitor
Only blogposts and comments are.
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KartikPrabhu
if you are only concerned with search results I don't know if any search engine actually parses microformats for anything
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KartikPrabhu
i might be wrong.
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KartikPrabhu
i mean i don't think any serach engine uses h-entry markup. they might use rel links
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indie-visitor
Don't know in that much detail, but they supported different microformats markups for search results before they came up with their own schema.org.
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indie-visitor
But outside this scope...
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indie-visitor
Why is indiewebcamp marking up pages with h-entry/hentry?
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KartikPrabhu
right. I just mean that if your only concern is SEO, you don't need to worry about microformats that much
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indie-visitor
Who/which tools is consuming their pages?
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KartikPrabhu
to do replies form site to site
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KartikPrabhu
to consume h-feed as HTML markedup feeds instead of RSS/Atom
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indie-visitor
From WP I only know that posts and comments are outputted as feed to consume by readers. So user using RSS tool for example can easily follow blogposts or comments.
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indie-visitor
In this perspective
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indie-visitor
I don't understand your example yet about 'replies from site to site'
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indie-visitor
I understand that marking up h-feed with h-entry is meant to be 'consumed' as well
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KartikPrabhu
by "reply from site to site" I mean that you can reply on your site to a post on my site and using webmention and microformats it will show up on my site under the post
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indie-visitor
but I never seen website with archive pages (h-feed) about pages
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KartikPrabhu
here is a example of site to site replies: https://kartikprabhu.com/notes/re-rss-atom
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KartikPrabhu
this is what indiewebcamp is doing. You write on your own site, including replies, fav, reposts and all that. And the other site will know about it and parse it using microformats
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indie-visitor
Thanks for the further explenation, I had seen that on other site already, it's about the idea to 'publish your content on your own website first' when I'm right.
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KartikPrabhu
yes
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indie-visitor
Yes great! That we got that straight :-).
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indie-visitor
Last thing though..
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KartikPrabhu
microformats are more useful in that context than SEO
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indie-visitor
I understand (I'm interested in that as well).
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indie-visitor
That comment that we are talking about = datestamped, so I understand using h-entry there.
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indie-visitor
But how to relate this to my original question why I should have h-entry on a normal page.
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KartikPrabhu
you might want to have h-entry on a normal page if someone uses microformats to check for updates, for example
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KartikPrabhu
as an example, suppose I have an about page. I can mark it up with h-card and an updated date so people can check if my personal info has been updated
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KartikPrabhu
like if I change my avatar
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KartikPrabhu
or phone numnber/email
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Loqi
[bridgy] Armin Grewe +1ed a post https://indiewebcamp.com/2014-review#This_Is_A_Movement (https://plus.google.com/+MatthiasPfefferle/posts/9neajHNpoKf)
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indie-visitor
Ok, thanks for that example as well. Can you only confirm that I'm right that the page markup is not important/related to getting the -comment-on-your-site-first- functioning?
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indie-visitor
Ow I didn't read all text
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indie-visitor
avatar example is good as well
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indie-visitor
thanks for all your help!
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indie-visitor
Then I'm only having this last question:
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indie-visitor
Can you only confirm that I'm right that the page markup is not important/related to getting the -comment-on-your-site-first- functioning?
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KartikPrabhu
yes. as far as I know all comments etc... are done using posts and not static pages
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indie-visitor
Ok, thanks for all the help again and have a great day!
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KartikPrabhu
if you are interested in getting indieweb functionality on wordpress we have a wiki for that
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KartikPrabhu
what is wordpress?
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Loqi
WordPress is an open source blog software as well as a blog hosting service https://indiewebcamp.com/WordPress
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KartikPrabhu
there you go link ^
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indie-visitor
Thanks for the link, are going to look into that!
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KartikPrabhu
cool. have fun!
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@IndieWebCampUK
Who's excited for IndieWebCamp Edinburgh? This remote participant is... https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK/status/624861699942821888/photo/1 (twtr.io/120Fup1G1d8)
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acegiak
So I'm trying to work out if there's a way I can do something like Obsidian Portal but on my own website
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KartikPrabhu
what's that?
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acegiak
ObsidianPortal is a site that lets you organise notes from RPG games
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acegiak
it's basically a wiki with a bunch of little features that work really well for RPG games
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KartikPrabhu
acegiak: why not start by posting usual /notes and go from there
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acegiak
like wiki pages can have secret sections that are only visible to certain people (ie the player who knows the info and the gamemaster)
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KartikPrabhu
like /private-posts ?
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acegiak
KartikPrabhu: that's what I've been doing with my preparatory work for my upcoming game
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KartikPrabhu
nice. I can see a /collection post which collects all the /notes from a game
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KartikPrabhu
that is what I think I'll do with my photos
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acegiak
wondering what's the lowest friction way to let my players contribute
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KartikPrabhu
oh without an indieauth login?
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acegiak
indieauth might be the way to go
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acegiak
I haven't thought much about this yet
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KartikPrabhu
or maybe they can submit /edit posts
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acegiak
I've been posting my prep stuff to my blog
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acegiak
and I feel like having a separate wiki will discourage us from contributing to it
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tantek
good morning #indiewebcamp!
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acegiak
morning, tantek!
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tantek
reads the logs and sees a discussion about h-entry / hentry and Google / search
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: let me know if I handeled that wrongly
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rhiaro
Morning, tantek do you know what's up with te IWC youtube? ben_thatmustbeme gave me access, but I forget how..
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rhiaro
It doesn't show up as an account I have access to when I'm logged in..
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tantek
rhiaro: I have no idea what's up with IWC youtube
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rhiaro
Okay, just thought I'd check :)
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: anything in particular?
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tantek
what is Obsidian Portal?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Obsidian Portal" yet. Would you like to create it? http://indiewebcamp.com/s/100M
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: mostly about search engines not caring about microformats
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: where did you get that impression?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: I mean about h-entry. Do search engines do anything with h-entry? or any microformats other than rel
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tantek
we don't actually know
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tantek
all we do know is what they do claim to index
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tantek
you can't actually substantiate "not caring", thus it doesn't make sense to make the claim
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tantek
KartikPrabhu: did you try looking on the microformats wiki?
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tantek
e.g. for "search" or "Google" ?
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: ok will check for next time
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tantek
why not check now to check what you thought / said?
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tantek
no need to hold onto a hypothetical supposition any longer than you need to when there is more background material to help you with a more informed summary
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@pkrautz
RT @pfefferle: IndieWebCamp 2014 – This is a movement http://notizblog.org/2015/07/25/indiewebcamp-2014-this-is-a-movement/ (twtr.io/120JARpq7Mb)
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: checked now. mostly concerned that the wiki might be out of date 2010
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KartikPrabhu
in any case, nothing on the microformats wiki suggests that h-entry is used so I wasn't too off base
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tantek
well except for the fundamental logic error of presuming "not caring"
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KartikPrabhu
yes.
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KartikPrabhu
is it fair to say that it is not known that search engines do anything with h-entry
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tantek
as with most things, search engines are secret about what they actually do with any particular markup
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KartikPrabhu
gotcha
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tantek
absent any evidence, all we can assume is that they (at least try to) use whatever markup they find that's useful to them (e.g. enough instances / domains using it)
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KartikPrabhu
tantek: cool. off to sleep now. night
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acegiak
is there a tool I can give to my players so that they can send webentions manually with a nice UI?
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rhiaro
beta.talky.io/iwcedi
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JarOfGreen
@rhiaro starting IndieWebCamp Edinburgh .....
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timkrins.com
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+181) "/* Regrets */" (view diff)
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moredhel
rhiaro finishes introductions
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moredhel
rhiaro begins showing her own site http://rhiaro.co.uk
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aaronpk
lost the livestream!
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moredhel
working on it
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moredhel
rhiaro showing quill.p3k.io to demonstrate posting to her site
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aaronpk
oops i think the "like" bookmarklet broke since twitter changed some security settings
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aaronpk
like a couple days ago
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aaronpk
that might be a good project for me to fix tomorrow :)
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moredhel
rhiaro describing her potential goals for this weekend
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moredhel
JarOfGreen, opening and destribing his website
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moredhel
interested in easing the process of passing web-mentions around the web
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moredhel
tbrb mentions and displays his site...
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moredhel
describing his new site that he is setting up
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JarOfGreen
Specially around events and open data for events - for my work on http://opentechcalendar.co.uk/
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moredhel
KitB talks about his site https://kitb.pw
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moredhel
shows how to setup rel links for indie auth
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moredhel
grant shows his website, http://grant.codes ...
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moredhel
closes
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moredhel
kethin describes http://www.matrix.org, one of the sponsors of the event
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moredhel
hosted on github, allows for a decentralised way to perform voice and video to your website.
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rhiaro
s/kethin/kegan
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KitD
question asked about comparison with xmpp
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KitD
answer: xmpp is very "thin", matrix.org does "presence", "who's typing", "receipts"
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KitD
tbrb mentions xmpp horrible for voice and video
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moredhel
incosistent api with XMPP, this aims to provide a higher level api.
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moredhel
mentions his own site https://kdougal.wordpress.com
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moredhel
francesco opens, describes his background of academia and wed-dev...
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KitD
rhiaro mentions wordpress plugins for indieweb
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moredhel
describes his website, fran.io
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rhiaro
Fran: posting interface is on a url without authentication, so not showing everyone
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moredhel
describing his website's state, and wanting to add more to it
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tbrb
For anyone following iwcedi here, I just deployed my updated site, with support for signing in with indieauth at harryreeder.co.uk
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rhiaro
River: mm0hai.net
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rhiaro
... Deliberately minimal website with blog posts and map
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rhiaro
... Jekyll
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rhiaro
... Recently added indieweb bits, webmention.io
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rhiaro
... Doesn't do anything with webmentions yet
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rhiaro
Henry: pitest.org
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rhiaro
... A site for open source projects I've been working on
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rhiaro
... Began life as a static site, writing html directly
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rhiaro
... then uses hakyll, haskell static site generator... now jekyll
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rhiaro
... *talks about mutation testing*
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rhiaro
Bart: Used to have a blog once
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rhiaro
... Uses github instead of blog, force self to commit things
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rhiaro
Gandolf: Last time I had a website was when people were using dialup
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rhiaro
... Worked on website using university computers, hosted on JANET
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rhiaro
... Posted a video, but people tried to look at it using dialup
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rhiaro
... Before google, I was the firs thit for 'gandolf'
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rhiaro
... Until the university asked if there was a reason he had a website on their servers
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gorzilla.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+225) (view diff)
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rhiaro
tbrb is back, having deployed new site
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rhiaro
... Wants to start posting to new site this weekend
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rhiaro
... Can now sign into harryreeder.co.uk via indieauth
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rhiaro
... *internal server error*
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JarOfGreen
sarcastic clapping established early on :-)
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rhiaro
... *tries again just in case*
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aaronpk
tbrb: you can add sms support so you don't need to log in to github on amy's computer :)
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rhiaro
moredhel: hamhut1066.com
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tbrb
aaronpk: I'll add that to my to-do :)
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aaronpk
pretty sure it works with non-us numbers anyway
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tbrb
I'll have a tinker and report back then :)
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aaronpk
moredhel describes how he built his site, used to have javascript on it, but got annoyed at how slow that made it, so now there's no JS at all and it's fast
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rhiaro
Tim: retout.co.uk
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rhiaro
... Went to IWC Brighton last year and has done almost nothing since
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rhiaro
... Site is a combination of blog (since 2007, disabled comments because of spam) and pump.io which does 'crazy social stuff'
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tbrb
Ok sign in works now!
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rhiaro
... Very interested in federation and social web and stuff
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tbrb
dodgy database config setting
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rhiaro
... I want to throw it all away and write it from scratch
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rhiaro
Gordan: Don't have much of a web presence. Ethical Hacking student from Dundee.
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rhiaro
... gorzilla.co.uk
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rhiaro
... Just signed into the IWC wiki
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rhiaro
... Would be interested in sandstorm.io. And personal stuff.
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gor_zilla
s/Gordan/Gordon
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KitD
rhiaro: "indiewebify.me is good"
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KitD
... also IndieMark is useful
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aaronpk
are we switching to hangouts?
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GWG
I have no idea. I just got here.
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tbrb
aaronpk: I've got both on the go, apparently the hangouts one automatically records too
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aaronpk
yep
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GWG
I'm trying to tune in the Youtube one as the easiest to get on the bigger screen, and it says please stand by.
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rhiaro
GWG we can run both if you like?
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rhiaro
Forgot to hit go on the youtube for the intros :/
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aaronpk
aw darn!
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rhiaro
We're on a break right now, just about to do schedule
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rhiaro
Hopefully can rustle up enough laptops to stream all sessions
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GWG
If you can. Only because I always have trouble getting talky on anything but my computer, and then I can't see the chat.
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GWG
If not, I'll go fire up a spare computer like I did earlier this month
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@conflictmedia
Cool and important work is done on #federation & #decentralization http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html http://indiewebcamp.com/ @w3c #indieweb (twtr.io/120SL0_tS6x)
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rhiaro
GWG: we can do Hangouts, sure
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rhiaro
Stand by
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rhiaro
(stand by for info from tbrb, he's in charge of it)
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GWG
Hangouts is two way
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tbrb
GWG: http://bit.ly/1MOg0fj that's the Hangouts session :)
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GWG
I was hoping for one way.
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tbrb
you can do both with hangouts
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tbrb
you can view it on the youtube channel for watch only, or the hangouts link for two-way
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aaronpk
the youtube link says it's not live yet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH4BeQ5skSw
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GWG
I'm trying to get the watch only, because I have a Roku box hooked up to my TV. Later I may come in on talky.
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GWG
What aaronpk said.
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GWG
It say Please Stand by
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tbrb
Yeah, we're doing schedule at the moment
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tbrb
so there's nothing to see right now on it anyway
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tbrb
It's going live now though to test it out
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GWG
I now have a logo
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GWG
And audio
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tbrb
Ok cool
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GWG
A bit low though.
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GWG
I hear people, having trouble making out the conversation clearly.
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GWG
Sounds like it is underwater
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GWG
I see...and then it said Loading..
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tbrb
Should be good now?
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GWG
Better
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GWG
Now I just have to concentrate a bit.
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ben_thatmustbeme
good morning IWC Edinburgh
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@papapelz
yeah. ich geb die credits weiter an @diplix, der mich wiederum angefixt hat ;) #indieweb https://twitter.com/sys_adm_ama/status/624893125950087168 (twtr.io/120Tp2Wuq1b)
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aaronpk
good morning!
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I'm still asleep myself.
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, sleep typing, impressive
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Good reason to forego the camera feed.
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ben_thatmustbeme
whoever moved the laptop, we juts lost sound... reallly choppy now
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ben_thatmustbeme
someone post a photo of the schedule grid though
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rhiaro
Photo pending
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KitD
ben_thatmustbeme: on its way
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rhiaro
We're doing a getting started + webmentions session with everyone first
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GWG
Still a bit choppy, but getting better
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rhiaro
Do you want to be able to speak?
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GWG
rhiaro: No, I'm fine right now.
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tbrb
uploading the photo now
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk?
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GWG
I'll just type in IRC
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tbrb
ben_thatmustbeme: http://img.harryreeder.co.uk/2015-07-25_12-00-26.jpg
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tbrb
Raw schedule photo, I'm going to type it up into the Wiki now
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aaronpk
thanks!
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@IndieWebCampUK
Indiewebcamp Edinburgh schedule https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK/status/624897605613568001/photo/1 (twtr.io/120UjQ0ZB6g)
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rhiaro
Is the audio okay right now?
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GWG
Not bad. I think we all need to invest in microphones though
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ben_thatmustbeme
no audio
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ben_thatmustbeme
for me
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ben_thatmustbeme
oh, coming back
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tbrb
Room is very quiet right now anyway
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indie-visitor
audio on youtube streaming is gjkljldsfjsfljls
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KitD
indie-visitor: does it seem to be a capture issue or a hardware issue?
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aaronpk
i suspect it's an encoding issue, maybe not enough CPU
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indie-visitor
it suddenly got better
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csarven
left the stream to donate his share to the others
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aaronpk
maybe turn off talky and just do hangouts?
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indie-visitor
oh, video is dying.
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tbrb
Got a different laptop doing hangouts audio, is that better?
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csarven
If only tuning in to receive the stream, just use YouTube.
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csarven
goes back to his text-editor.
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indie-visitor
I'm currently using youtube, not hangout
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indie-visitor
baling out...
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@macleodan
At indieweb camp Edinburgh. Talking about getting started on the #indieweb. (twtr.io/120WKA_E9CZ)
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ben_thatmustbeme
lovely echo in the feed actually
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tbrb
I'll see what I can do about that
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tbrb
Yeah, the laptop with the webcam doesn't seem to be beefy enough, CPU wise
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tbrb
Audio will stay, I'll swap the video over to a better one
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aaronpk
wow why are fil upload buttons so hard to style
#
tbrb
re-starting the hangout now
#
KitD
http://bit.ly/1gUIIBi new hangout link
#
ben_thatmustbeme
soooo much better
#
ben_thatmustbeme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p6UieJVafk
#
tbrb
Ok, noted for future that that laptop is too low spec to run hangouts :'(
#
ben_thatmustbeme
tbrb++
#
Loqi
tbrb has 2 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
KitD++
#
Loqi
KitD has 1 karma
#
tbrb
Now to finish typing the schedule
#
@rhiaro
Testing from IWC Edinburgh! #indiewebcamp http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/07/testing-from-iwc (twtr.io/120XW4kU8fY)
#
KitD
Hah, tbrb posted the new hangout link from my laptop
#
KitD
(which is being used for the video stream)
#
tbrb
yay for having multiple spare laptops around
#
Loqi
giggles
#
ben_thatmustbeme
anyone with additional quesitons, feel free to toss them out in IRC
#
ben_thatmustbeme
or rather questions not necessarily on topic to the session
#
KitD
I think the difficulty right now is figuring out what questions we should ask
#
harryreeder.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (+765) "/* Schedule */ Add in session grid" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
anything, KitD think of it as "you might want to code this tomorrow" so what do you need to know
#
KitD
I'll figure out the questions tomorrow
#
ben_thatmustbeme
haha
#
ben_thatmustbeme
discussion is always better than a lecture
#
KitD
not to mention I live with rhiaro :P
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i figured
#
ben_thatmustbeme
haha
#
moredhel
true.
#
GWG
Unrelated to IWC EDI: If replying to a post on another site, where do people usually store the name of the other site's post, if it exists?
#
GWG
I'm looking at the storage in light of the Micropub stuff, which stores everything as its mf2 property.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, i store all other posts i reply to in to a "contexts" table
#
harryreeder.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (+57) "/* Day 1: Saturday */ Tidy ups and extra links" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i should probably merge that with comments
#
ben_thatmustbeme
but its basically just storage of "other's posts"
#
Loqi
+1
#
ben_thatmustbeme
then its just relations between my posts and them, or those posts to each other
#
ben_thatmustbeme
oh, i remember why i keep those seperate
#
GWG
Right now, I'm storing the data in a field called cite, which seems to be correct.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i allow editing of comments, but i don't edit context messages
#
GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Why?
#
KitD
Damn, I should've brought a mouse mat; these desks are entirely too white for my mouse
#
ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, i do recursive context history
#
ben_thatmustbeme
keeping relations of posts to other posts is important for me. and saves me repulling sites
#
anm
Hi, I'm having trouble with the microformats parser, http://pin13.net/mf2
#
anm
It works for my site http://mm0hai.net, but not for https://mm0hai.net
#
anm
I just get an empty result with https
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ben_thatmustbeme
anm: both appear empty for me
#
ben_thatmustbeme
nevermind, now it is
#
anm
hm, I just looked again right now and it works
#
anm
yes, it was being weird like that here too
#
GWG
anm: Caching?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
checks unmung.com
#
@girlgeekscot
RT @NCREDINBURGH: Don't Forget @NCREDINBURGH are hosting #IndieWebCamp in Edinburgh this weekend > http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twtr.io/120Yo_bNceC)
#
KitD
I'm definitely seeing it working without ssl and not working with ssl
#
KitD
the vouch article is the longest stub I've ever seen
#
ben_thatmustbeme
http://www.unmung.com/mf2?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmm0hai.net%2F&html=&pretty=on
#
aaronpk
haha maayyybe it's not a stub anymore
#
ben_thatmustbeme
pretty much every page on the wiki still says stub
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hah
#
aaronpk
wow how did vouch come up so early in the conversation?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
there is another implementation working
#
ben_thatmustbeme
gRegorLove is working on it
#
rhiaro
aaronpk: spam
#
aaronpk
ah
#
ben_thatmustbeme
no, no breaks allowed :P
#
ben_thatmustbeme
yes, streaming is much much better
#
@kitbarnes
@edindies @wishf_ @tinyblob @ItsStalemate @jeffmadriaga @charliehodara not to mention #indiewebcamp https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (twtr.io/120ZFHnMpwG)
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rhiaro
next session is private posts, access control stuff
#
rhiaro
Race to drop useful links?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
http://indiewebcamp.com/private_posts
#
ben_thatmustbeme
yes on youtbe
#
csarven
http://www.w3.org/ns/auth/acl
#
rhiaro
etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/private
#
aaronpk
http://indiewebcamp.com/private-webmention
#
rhiaro
Thanks
#
anm
thanks, unmung.com is working for me
#
aaronpk
csarven: that link just downloads a file called "acl" for me
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ben_thatmustbeme
joins the hangout
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ben_thatmustbeme
well currently one of the twins actually
#
rhiaro
Have there been private posts discussions on iwc etherpads before?
#
aaronpk
not sure. you could search the wiki tho cause the etherpads all end up there
#
csarven
aaronpk Do you have a particular way of handling RDF/XML in your client?
#
aaronpk
you mean my browser?
#
aaronpk
uhh
#
csarven
Whatever your client is.. browser, curl, ..
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csarven
aaronpk See also http://www.w3.org/wiki/WebAccessControl
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ben_thatmustbeme
sneaks both girls in video frame
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ben_thatmustbeme
hehe
#
aaronpk
they are so tiny!
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: twice the size we brought them home at
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ben_thatmustbeme
sorry off topic
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tbrb
Awwwww, I just saw the twins there :)
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poka
will having a Google acct get you video on X11 firefox? http://mw.logbook.am/hangouts.png - 403 error suggests it's not a codec but a signin issue. webm/vp[89] all compiled in
#
poka
surellt there's an indie and opensource-in-debian 1-lline cam-cappture-to-reflector-for-VLC/mplayer tool?
#
rhiaro
aaronpk: http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/private
#
aaronpk
rhiaro: here's an example of a GPG-encrypted post https://aaronparecki.com/replies/2014/02/26/7/gpg
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ben_thatmustbeme
javascript contol of anything fails the cURL test though
#
ben_thatmustbeme
missed part of the convo
#
rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: js for decrypting
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ben_thatmustbeme
ah
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ben_thatmustbeme
there is always the "analog hole" if someone could read it, they can share it
#
ben_thatmustbeme
the concern was automated systems doing that
#
ben_thatmustbeme
"syndication" for example
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ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, if you are going to post a version people have to log in to to see anyway, would probably be better to just stick with that, not needing multiple posts
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ben_thatmustbeme
(in response to the PGP and other post for facebook people, etc)
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tbrb
rhiaro: We'll try and get back to the schedule with after lunch sessions?
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ben_thatmustbeme
obscure URL
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ben_thatmustbeme
for static sites
#
moredhel
my thought too... but then how do you distribute the url?
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ben_thatmustbeme
webmention direct to those people
#
moredhel
true
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ben_thatmustbeme
mmm pizza
#
tbrb
We've not quite perfected food-over-ip
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rhiaro
ben_thatmustbeme: we've still got breakfast left, help yourself to pizza :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
:P
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GWG
Breakfast pizza?
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ben_thatmustbeme
rhiaro: thats just mean
#
ben_thatmustbeme
8 am here
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aaronpk
5am here, almost time for breakfast
#
GWG
Babies and cats. Fun
#
JarOfGreen
Starting notes for next session, events http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/events
#
ben_thatmustbeme
tries to get pause to sit still for the fee
#
ben_thatmustbeme
d
#
GWG
And now, for a cat interlude.
#
csarven
ben_thatmustbeme A cat named "Pause" that don't sit still? Is that like the buttered cat paradox?
#
david.shanske.com
edited /WordPress/Data (-429) "/* Post Kinds Plugin */" (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
csarven: dog
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ben_thatmustbeme
cat.... phhht... he's way cooler
#
@IndieWebCampUK
Indiewebcamp Edinburgh lunch time (thanks @NCREDINBURGH!). Remote @indiewebcat has a snooze. https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK/status/624919538057003008/photo/1 (twtr.io/120b_VJi9iU)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
almost got him on stream rhiaro
#
GWG
!tell acegiak I'm rewriting the Post Kinds data plan again.
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
acegiak
GWG: what? why?
#
Loqi
acegiak: GWG left you a message 23 seconds ago: I'm rewriting the Post Kinds data plan again. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437827450992
#
tbrb
so, in ~ 45 minutes we've got two sessions in parallel, one on Categorisation / Collection & Media and one on Static Sites, we may be able to get a hangout going for each, though if folks want we can just move the current hangout wherever needed
#
GWG
acegiak: I'm trying to add more data in.
#
JarOfGreen
Oh wait, events is not the next session
#
acegiak
isn't the current structure designed to let you do that without changing any of the existing stuff?
#
GWG
acegiak: So I want to support additional mf2 prefixed keys.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, i mean, recording sessions in somewhat new, i don't think we have ever recorded more than one at a time
#
rhiaro
IWCEdi, breaking ground.
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ben_thatmustbeme
but i'm for it, but don't go to too much trouble
#
GWG
acegiak: mf2_cite is staying as it is, except for the change I made regarding multidimensional arrays.
#
ben_thatmustbeme
haha, Dora and Pause both in one hangout
#
Loqi
ahahaha
#
ben_thatmustbeme
"dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!"
#
GWG
acegiak: I'm trying to support mf2_in_reply_to, mf2_bookmark, mf2_rsvp, etc. as part of the Micropub work.
#
rhiaro
Did syndicating to indienews via webmention go anywhere yet?
#
rhiaro
jarofgreen and I are just discussing syndicating indieevents to opentechcalendar via webmention
#
aaronpk
i think i wrote up how i want it to work
#
rhiaro
Is that sensible?
#
aaronpk
it's not quite a webmention, it's a slight overloading, but i think it is a good mechanism
#
rhiaro
yeah
#
JarOfGreen
is the issue if some web mentions you a page that has an event on, are you sure they want that event to be passed on or is that by accident?
#
GWG
acegiak: If you have any ideas in this vein, tell me. This time, I'm not deprecating, I'm expanding.
#
JarOfGreen
for example, if an site has a side bar box with upcoming events you might pick them up, but they are not part of the main post
#
JarOfGreen
eg http://edinburghhacklab.com/2015/07/arduino-workshop-august2015/
#
JarOfGreen
also, this may not always apply but it does in my case; you want to categorise events on your site, so when you import events by any means you need to be able to do that
#
aaronpk
yeah that's the danger of a plain webmention for syndication
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aaronpk
but requiring the source site actually links to the intended destination helps
#
rhiaro
you'd want a u-syndication(?) anyway, right?
#
aaronpk
the trick is you won't know the URL of the u-syndication until after you send it there
#
aaronpk
so the response will have the URL
#
rhiaro
oh, right, yeah
#
rhiaro
that's why I don't have syndication links for my tweets
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aaronpk
so it's a little more than a webmention because there is a response
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh (+392) "Links to etherpads" (view diff)
#
JarOfGreen
well, i think i might be talking a separate case
#
JarOfGreen
i want to post some content on my site with an event or something and be like "I want this syndicated to these other sites, X, Y, Z". It would be nice if X, Y and Z could get a webmention, parse it, see the event but also see that I definitely want it to be passed round and automatically import it for me
#
ben_thatmustbeme
h- is just a giant troll
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hehe
#
aaronpk
you know we can ask tantek when he wakes up
#
JarOfGreen
plans a, b, c, etc .... all fell thru
#
ben_thatmustbeme
its an upside down mu (micro
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i believe is correc
#
ben_thatmustbeme
schema.org.... mark your oceans up with a fax number :P
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ben_thatmustbeme
ocean is funnier i think
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ben_thatmustbeme
should send that roll to arhcive.org :P
#
aaronpk
oh, a problem with syndicating via webmention... the webmention verification and pulling in the content would have to happen synchronously in order to return the syndication URL in the response
#
ben_thatmustbeme
huh?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
oh
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ben_thatmustbeme
only if you don't queue
#
aaronpk
you can't queue if you are going to return the URL in the response. that's my point
#
ben_thatmustbeme
you would have to be able to poll the queue later for the syndication url
#
ben_thatmustbeme
:/
#
ben_thatmustbeme
not idael
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ben_thatmustbeme
/ae/ea/
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aaronpk
https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieNews/issues/9#issuecomment-124846594
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ben_thatmustbeme
raises his hand
#
rhiaro
ack ben_thatmustbeme
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aaronpk
ben_thatmustbeme: ad yourself here! http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#Asynchronous_status_polling
#
ben_thatmustbeme
https://github.com/dissolve/webmention
#
aaronpk
we had also tossed the idea around of a "callback" URL sent with the webmention, where the receiver can post status data there later
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ben_thatmustbeme
i actually just removed the code for that
#
aaronpk
you had code for that?
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ben_thatmustbeme
because it was never used and i never actually hit the callback
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ben_thatmustbeme
i stored it
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ben_thatmustbeme
i don't think i ever called the callback
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aaronpk
the callback method seems better for syndication, because the sender wouldn't need to poll for an indefinite amount of time
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ben_thatmustbeme
is still thinking this is overloading webmention
#
ben_thatmustbeme
and micropub is a better syndication method
#
aaronpk
i wouldn't think of it as overloading webmention, just a totally different spec that does similar things
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shout-user60
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/g2dctlavdjaf4mzakjnxlutohma
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aaronpk
the challenge with the micropub one is how do you handle auth?
#
gorzilla.co.uk
edited /2015/Edinburgh/Guest_List (+77) (view diff)
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IWC-Edi-Session2
^ static sites
#
aaronpk
you'd need either real authentication (which is going to be too much hassle for everyone involved) or you need to be able to verify the canonical version of the post again
#
aaronpk
which means async processing
#
aaronpk
so we're back to square 1
#
ben_thatmustbeme
actually much easier. basically the only thing you need is a few changes to your webmention endpoint to make it a client
#
ben_thatmustbeme
say i go to service X, it says, "syndicate here" and has a button, that links to your webmention endpoint with a code to tell it where to start auth
#
moredhel
tbrb is way too excited
#
tbrb
=3
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moredhel
<3
#
ben_thatmustbeme
the ideal case is to not have the webmention receiver require any extra code
#
ben_thatmustbeme
just be a generic micropub client
#
rhiaro
Kongaloosh: you're probably interested in collections and media session starting right now: http://etherpad.indiewebcamp.com/media
#
ben_thatmustbeme
so you could syndicate to anything that already accept micropub
#
aaronpk
that seems like an unnecessary goal
#
rhiaro
and tantek was talking about presenting multiple photo posts at some point a while ago..? (anyone remember?)
#
aaronpk
since no community/aggregate sites support micropub right now
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ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: why, indienews would just be ANY site
#
ben_thatmustbeme
s/would/could
#
Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme meant to say: aaronpk: why, indienews could just be ANY site
#
ben_thatmustbeme
indienews could be a known site
#
ben_thatmustbeme
once multi-user micropub works that is
#
aaronpk
okay here's the problem
#
aaronpk
we're talking specifically about syndication, meaning there is a canonical post that is intended to be copied
#
aaronpk
this is distinctly different from a multi-user blog, where there is only one copy of the post
#
ben_thatmustbeme
correction, micropub endpoints need only accept "u-url means this is a syndication of that url"
#
aaronpk
in order to syndicate a post, the syndication target needs to either: 1) fetch the data from the original or 2) verify the intent to syndicate
#
ben_thatmustbeme
or something to that effect
#
aaronpk
(where in case 2 the syndication request would contain all the post data)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
this allows for different versions to syndicate though as the data passed to the syndication site may be different
#
aaronpk
but in both cases, whether or not the request contains the post content (micropub-like vs webmention-like protocol), the syndication target needs to check the canonical URL
#
ben_thatmustbeme
you don't need 1) if you are using mp
#
aaronpk
right 1, is the webmention-like protocol, 2 is the micropub-like protocol
#
ben_thatmustbeme
did we lose audio/video in the hangout?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
frozen
#
aaronpk
but unless you go check the canonical URL, you're not doing syndication, youre just doing multi-author posting
#
aaronpk
(yeah hangout video froze for me)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
sure you are, its just a different method of syndication. you are saying the plumbing defines whether you are "syndicating" or "reposting"
#
tbrb
Main laptop was on battery, just booting it up again
#
aaronpk
in either version, the syndication target needs to go check the canonical URL
#
ben_thatmustbeme
why?
#
aaronpk
otherwise the syndication target is going to get spammed with fake syndication requests
#
ben_thatmustbeme
it requires auth. you just cut off auth to that person
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ben_thatmustbeme
if you want you can require syndication url be from the same site you are registered with
#
aaronpk
at least going and fetching the canonical URL means spammers have to create a web page
#
ben_thatmustbeme
micropub means spammers have to log in
#
aaronpk
without that step, spammers just have to create fake IDs which is way easier
#
ben_thatmustbeme
creating webpages is just as easy
#
tbrb
And we're back
#
aaronpk
creating webpages is harder
#
aaronpk
but still easy, as pingback spam has demonstrated
#
aaronpk
what we should do is write up the full flow of both versions here http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-brainstorming
#
aaronpk
so that we can see actually all of the steps
#
ben_thatmustbeme
agreed
#
ben_thatmustbeme
oh, other advantage, is that syndication can be easily added to your syndicate-to
#
ben_thatmustbeme
programatically
#
aaronpk
i think it's the same for both
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ben_thatmustbeme
you haven't authed at all though have you?
#
ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /Webmention (+144) "/* Implementations */ add me" (view diff)
#
aaronpk
can I call these two methods "thin" and "fat" instead of "webmention" and "micropub"?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
hmm, i suppose, but they are both existing specs that we are working with so i think it makes sense the other way
#
aaronpk
i want to avoid any baggage of calling it webmention or micropub
#
aaronpk
at least in the brainstorming doc, we can change it later if it makes sense
#
ben_thatmustbeme
is concerned that usually "thin" has immediate preference to "fat"
#
aaronpk
i could call them "1" and "2" but that isn't very descriptive
#
ben_thatmustbeme
push vs pull
#
ben_thatmustbeme
?
#
aaronpk
that works
#
aaronpk
there's also reference/value
#
ben_thatmustbeme
true
#
aaronparecki.com
created /syndication-brainstorming (+622) "stub with description of two methods" (view diff)
#
ben_thatmustbeme
aaronpk: question, what would a standard micropub post containing u-url mean for your mp receiver?
#
aaronpk
that seems like it would be requesting the micropub endpoint create the post at that URL
#
aaronpk
is "canonical" a property of h-entry?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
no
#
ben_thatmustbeme
well, i don't know
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i had never seen that
#
aaronpk
i think it's not, i think that's what "url" is for
#
ben_thatmustbeme
exactly
#
ben_thatmustbeme
if the url if offsite, you obviously can't create it
#
aaronpk
yeah and my newest micropub endpoint would just set that as a property of the thing it creates
#
ben_thatmustbeme
when you mark up the syndication it should have u-url to the canonical one though
#
ben_thatmustbeme
another reason explicit crud would make sense
#
ben_thatmustbeme
and action=syndicate
#
ben_thatmustbeme
possibly
#
ben_thatmustbeme
scrud
#
ben_thatmustbeme
heh
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+1095) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+1021) (view diff)
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ben_thatmustbeme
difficult to write everything up yet, i will get to it.. .but were on our way out the door
#
aaronpk
btw whatever we end up with for this I want to get in to calagator.org
#
aaronpk
portland's tech calendar
#
ben_thatmustbeme
but to syndicate to silos what url would you put the in u-syndication url?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
the service you are using to syndicate? or the silo?
#
ben_thatmustbeme
that would be cool aaronpk
#
aaronpk
this is a syndication protocol, so it only works if both sides speak it
#
ben_thatmustbeme
for example bridgy
#
aaronpk
you would put the bridgy publish URL
#
aaronpk
which is fine because it's going to reply with the tweet URL anyway so you can store the twitter url after it's done
#
ben_thatmustbeme
just thinking of that interim period "view on twitter' and it links to brid.gy publish url
#
aaronpk
yeah i guess you could make it a hidden link instead
#
aaronpk
!tell Jeena thanks for the PRs! they are live on quill.p3k.io now!
#
Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
aaronpk
oh i'm going to add a step and assume these posts were created via micropub, which should help
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay, i'm off
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aaronpk
there will be more things on this page when you return
#
ben_thatmustbeme
i'll catch up later
#
ben_thatmustbeme
cool
#
aaronpk
rhiaro: http://aaron.pk/e4aD1
#
rhiaro
thanks!
#
aaronpk
here's one with some indie rsvps http://aaron.pk/e4Y61
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aaronpk
hmm ben_thatmustbeme's image broke
#
aaronparecki.com
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+1717) (view diff)
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rhiaro
Notifications/reminders for indie events, anyone?
#
rhiaro
If I RSVP to an indie event, it would be cool if I could include in my rsvp that I'd like the publisher to ping me the day before or something
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aaronpk
as opposed to using native reminders/notifications of your client? e.g. iphone
#
aaronpk
my ears are burning :)
#
rhiaro
:)
#
aaronpk
i missed most of that tho
#
rhiaro
someone mentioned lifelogging
#
aaronpk
ah :)
#
rhiaro
River: "who thinks this is a good idea"
#
aaronpk
rhiaro: http://aaron.pk/m4cKzbr
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rhiaro
jarofgreen has the projecting laptop ^
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kegan_
aaronpk, how do you insert entries into /metrics?
#
aaronpk
Teacup!
#
aaronpk
https://teacup.p3k.io/
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aaronpk
and https://teacup.p3k.io/pebble
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aaronpk
are you guys making fun of my php? :P
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tbrb
aaronpk: no, rhiaro's teacup menu is suggesting PHP under Food
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aaronpk
rhiaro eats php for dinner
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rhiaro
nomnomnom
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rhiaro
It was one of those days.
#
rhiaro
I really need to figure out why my micropub endpoint is rejecting teacup posts
#
aaronpk
yes
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rhiaro
IWC session suggestion: what aaron does.
#
aaronpk
that might be a long session
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rhiaro
haha
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anm
aaronpk: What is your motivation for posting so much detail about your life - food, sleep etc? I feel like this is a bad idea - it gives an attacker a lot of help.
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rhiaro
Hope you don't mind being used as examples for everything
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aaronpk
anm: luckily i don't have many enemies
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rhiaro
But if you got just one enemy, they have everything they need all at once
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rhiaro
indienemesis
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aaronpk
it's possible i will make some of this stuff private or restricted to some smaller audience in the future
#
aaronpk
but it's not like you can really do much with the information of when I last slept. maybe you will know if I'm more tired than usual or something?
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anm
aaronpk: do you see some benefit from publishing it?
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rhiaro
when you're not in the house might be more useful to enemies
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anm
well I can see your routine (if you have one, not examined it) and have some idea when your house is empty or where you are
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rhiaro
insurance companies might be interested in your sleeping habits
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aaronpk
rhiaro: if someone wanted to know when i was not at the house they could just stand outside and wait for me to leave
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rhiaro
hah
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rhiaro
but they dont' even have to get out of bed
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aaronpk
the main benefit is providing examples for indiewebcamps right now :)
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anm
I wonder if it is a good example
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rhiaro
I'm really interested in logging everything for my own personal interest
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aaronpk
also it is a good reference for myself
#
rhiaro
And having it public is just easier
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aaronpk
i have more than once gone back and looked up when i last ate something, or what time I woke up on a certain day
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rhiaro
I find food logs are triggers to loads of other memories about a day
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anm
have you seen some benefit from other people seeing it though
#
rhiaro
anm: sometimes people are like 'what do vegans even eat' and I can point them to my food logs :)
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aaronpk
i've had people look up my flight plans to see where i'm sitting so they can get a seat nearby
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rhiaro
aaronpk: that's pretty creepy
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aaronpk
it was a friend
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rhiaro
Depends who it is..
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aaronpk
lol
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rhiaro
I find posting travel plans really useful, people stop asking 'when are you home' etc
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aaronparecki.com
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+1108) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+522) (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+236) (view diff)
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aaronpk
!tell ben_thatmustbeme I filled in a bunch of the brainstorming page, would be great to get your thoughts on how alice would get a bearer token for the syndication target: http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-brainstorming
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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snarfed
aaronpk: ben_thatmustbeme: skimmed the syndication discussion, will read the brainstorm
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aaronpk
sweet!
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aaronpk
would love to get your thoguhts since we would want bridgy publish to support this :)
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snarfed
you both probably already know that bridgy publish has supported the "thin" (webmention based) method for ~1y now - checks intent via u-syndication, posts via API synchronously, returns silo post URL in wm response body
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snarfed
docs: https://www.brid.gy/about#webmentions , https://www.brid.gy/about#response
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aaronpk
yep
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aaronpk
oh does it actualy require "u-syndication" on the link?
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snarfed
and yeah aaronpk i'm with you on the lighter intent-instead-of-auth idea
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snarfed
yeah, for verifying intent
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snarfed
didn't for a while, but now it does
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aaronpk
the example in the docs doesn't have it
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snarfed
https://www.brid.gy/about#security
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snarfed
oh? that's a bug if so
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snarfed
or elided for brevity
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snarfed
i'll look
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aaronpk
yeah i would expect to see it here? https://www.brid.gy/about#webmentions
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snarfed
good point! will fix, thanks
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snarfed
background: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/352
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aaronparecki.com
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+137) (view diff)
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aaronpk
made that more explicit
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snarfed
aaronpk while you're here, i'm starting on https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/44 . holler if i shouldn't
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aaronpk
^^
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snarfed
thx
#
aaronpk
oh cool, go for it!
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snarfed
new computer since my original wmio work, so i'm chest deep in more ruby/bundle config breakages in the vein of https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io#troubleshooting :(
#
aaronpk
ooh
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aaronpk
i have a process i usually use to set up ruby on a new machine
#
snarfed
you're on mac os x, right? remind me what you use to manage ruby versions?
#
aaronpk
would you like my notes?
#
snarfed
omg pls
#
snarfed
dying here :P
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rhiaro
waves at moredhel
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kylewm
setting up an unfamiliar environment is the actual worst
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aaronpk
https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/4d84e452e94c6c12cc06
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aaronpk
agreed
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moredhel
waves over-enthusiastically back
#
snarfed
kylewm: you'd think i'd be better at it the second time…but evidently no :/
#
snarfed
thanks aaronpk!
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aaronpk
updated with info on installing other versions of ruby https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/4d84e452e94c6c12cc06
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aaronpk
snarfed: right now does bridgy publish do the verification synchronously? cause i thought it returned the twitter URL in the response
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kylewm
aaronpk: yep publish is all synchronous
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snarfed
for exactly that reason
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snarfed
(nice side benefit that it's simpler too, but not the main reason)
#
snarfed
it already has to fetch the source page sync to get the post content anyway
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snarfed
s/sync//
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Loqi
snarfed meant to say: it already has to fetch the source page  to get the post content anyway
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aaronpk
well i mean the whole thing could be done async like i described on that page
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aaronpk
interesting that it wasn't a consideration for you though
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snarfed
aaronpk: sure! sorry, haven't read yet. i just didn't want to impose that complexity on clients
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snarfed
btw, re that gist, does wmio require <=2.1.6 ? or was that just as an example for installing multiple?
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aaronpk
that was an example but i'm running 2.1.6
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aaronpk
pretty sure it'll be fine on 2.2.2 but i haven't tried it yet
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snarfed
ok
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aaronpk
so if there isn't a concern from the syndication endpoint of needing to do the work synchronously, then that is a way simpler option
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snarfed
yup
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snarfed
sites can send webmentions async anyway, after publishing a post and returning to the user/client, so you can still avoid the user-facing latency
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aaronpk
yeah i was more concerned with allowing the syndication target to offload that work instead of requiring it to run synchronously
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aaronpk
i'd be curious to hear why you weren't worried about that
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snarfed
eh you have to do the work one way or another
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snarfed
if it's not user facing, what's the difference?
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snarfed
oh i see, just out of the http request path
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aaronpk
the server has to keep the http reequest open longer
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snarfed
sure
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snarfed
as long as it's optional, fine w/me
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marcus-povey.co.uk
edited /User:Marcus-povey.co.uk (+1714) "Finally got around to fleshing this out..." (view diff)
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snarfed
orthogonal point: we may want say a best practice is to send these syndication wms *before* other wms, and if you're doing async, maybe even wait for them to complete, so that when your other wm recipients fetch the page, they see the filled-in u-syndication links
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aaronpk
i think that is written here: http://indiewebcamp.com/webmention#POSSE_or_Send_Webmentions_First
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snarfed
ah nm you're right
#
snarfed
great minds
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aaronpk
that was tantek :)
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snarfed
i'm updating to say that if callback isn't specified, the synd target should return 200 with the synd post url in the body
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aaronpk
great
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rhiaro
aaronpk: if you're around, there's a micropub session just starting
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aaronpk
rhiaro: i am heading out the door now
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rhiaro
Aw okay
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aaronpk
you'll do fine :)
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rhiaro
I'm not in it
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snarfed
also i think we can simplify/minimize the examples a lot more, and stress the similaries w/wm and mp over the differences
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aaronpk
oh
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rhiaro
heh
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snarfed
that's my only other big feedback
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snarfed
aaronpk++ for writing this up!
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Loqi
aaronpk has 904 karma
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aaronpk
snarfed: go for it!
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aaronpk
snarfed: i'm also up for requiring the syndication endpoint handle it synchronously if there's enough justification
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snarfed
aaronpk: heh, as expected. maybe eventually!
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aaronpk
cause it greatly simplifies things
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rhiaro
tbrb: https://quill.p3k.io/docs has a micropub setup walkthrough
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aaronpk
so, good data point that the first implementation of this does it synchronously
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aaronpk
tbrb: and when you sign in to quill.p3k.io it walks you through it in more detail with more links
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rhiaro
tbrb: and I have minimal procedural micropub php http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/minimum-viable-micropub
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tbrb
Thanks
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anm
minimal / mini micropub = nanopub
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GWG
Yay WordPress
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rhiaro
anm: I think someone has said that before
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Loqi
giggles
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anm
Well he must have been a humourous sort of fellow. Hear hear.
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kylewm.com
edited /Micropub-brainstorming (+99) "/* Alternative Possible Spec */ slight edit/typos/clarification" (view diff)
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snarfed.org
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+680) "synchronous, bridgy publish" (view diff)
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rhiaro.co.uk
edited /sandstorm (+381) "Interest to indieweb" (view diff)
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rhiaro
tbrb: two minutes!
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Kongaloosh
rhiaro: is there a way to follow from abroad?
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rhiaro
Yeah, wake up earlier kongaloosh :p
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Kongaloosh
:<
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rhiaro
We've had live streams all day, but just finished
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Kongaloosh
I really should have
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Kongaloosh
geeze
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Kongaloosh
but are they recorded?
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KevinMarks
gillmor gang time
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KevinMarks
anythign I should talk about?
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GWG
Iran seems to be in the news
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GWG
I just went to get cleaned up, and I think I figured out what I need to do to make this code cleaner.
#
tantek
KevinMarks - get them to play the awesome new SWAT0 video!!
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tantek
I mean - you should talk about what SWAT0 is, the history, what it means etc.
#
tantek
and then close with the live video demo
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KevinMarks
I can try but they may not get it
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tantek
rhiaro: \o/ congrats on day 1
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tantek
KevinMarks - uh, how can gillmor gang not get the whole ownyourdata thing?
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KevinMarks
I'll give it a go
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tantek
you can point out that the steps in SWAT0 are trivial on today's silos
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tantek
people do it every day
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tantek
but it has been a challeng to make it work *for the web*
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KevinMarks
scoble is highly skilled at not getting it
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tantek
you're good at this, you can totally explain how it's been much harder to make it work across websites (come from the underdog / understatement perspective)
#
tantek
and recognizing that users expect this kind of easy functionality, the social web acid test v0 was created at the first Federated Social Web summit
#
tantek
to make it clear that this kind of user-centric functionality is what's important, not a bunch of academics arguing about protocols
#
tantek
and that after 5 years, we are finally seeing interoperable implementations emerge because we have solved the building blocks in IndieWebCamp
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tantek
we expect the progress from here to be exponential etc.
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tantek
maybe practice explaining the steps of SWAT 0 in plain english before hand
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tantek
using names of people on the show
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KevinMarks
which is the new video?
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aaronpk
i have found it very challenging to explain SWAT0 in plain english unless i can point to physical people in the room as an example
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tantek
KevinMarks: top of my site!
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KevinMarks
https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/14/1/swat0 is on the wiki
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aaronpk
KevinMarks: https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/14/1/swat0 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj5Z8ih4lOQ
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aaronpk
i updated my post with the new version because I can do that :)
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tantek
yay!
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Loqi
yay!
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tantek
aaronpk - challenging to explain? really?
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aaronpk
without specific examples yes
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KevinMarks
yay
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Loqi
:D
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aaronpk
it helps to point at someone and be like "you took a photo of me and tagged me in the photo"
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tantek
A takes photo of B and tags them in it. C who's following A sees the photo and comments on it. Both A and B get notified of C's comment.
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aaronpk
using abstract "A, B, C" or even made up names is very confusing in person
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tantek
I've spoken nearly literally that prose to explain it to non-programmers
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tantek
or if you like, use "I" as A, "you" as B, and name-of-someone-you-both-know as C
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aaronpk
i haven't had luck with that yet
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tantek
you can even gesture with your device while you explain it
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tantek
yes at some point the next step will be to be able to demo on TWIG or Gillmorgang with tools *they* can use on *their* devices
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rhiaro
IWCEdi is in the pub
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rhiaro
!tell benwerd happy to stream IWCEdi drinks if we're still going when you get here... We're in No. 1 Grange Road
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
rhiaro
Kongaloosh++ for collections at http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/25/albums
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Loqi
Kongaloosh has 2 karma
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KevinMarks
this isn't one of those edinbrugh pubs with 3ft thick granite walls then>
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tantek
KevinMarks: we're here for you if you get stuck with any other questions / explanations
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tantek
when does the show start
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KevinMarks
it's started
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KevinMarks
talking uber
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Kongaloosh
Ohh!
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KevinMarks
I told them about SWAT0, now they're talking twitter
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@AlexKKearney
I hacked together a little collections prototype yesterday using 'in-reply-to' #indieweb http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/25/albums (twtr.io/1213ttrBXqQ)
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KevinMarks
doing it on TWiG with Leo as part of the flow would be good
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tantek
yes
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tantek
!tell KartikPrabhu re: "mostly concerned that the wiki might be out of date 2010" - if that's so, you need to speak up about it. Either use the wiki (feel free to check citations / references), or if you're concerned, *ask* - don't assume "might be out of date". Because then there's no chance of it being fixed if it is.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek
rhiaro: in reading the logs - noticing a bunch of new folks here in IRC that are not yet on /irc-people - perhaps as soon as people get IndieAuth setup as part of Getting Started you can encourage them to add themselves to /irc-people ?
#
rhiaro
sure :)
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tantek
great notes in the IRC btw
#
tantek
(so much logs!)
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tantek
huh - /syndication-brainstorming looks way overdesigned - what's wrong with "just use h-entry + PuSH" ?
#
tantek
(what I successfully used to do 100% standards based syndication to Google Buzz before they shut it down)
#
tantek
the syndication by webmention method is an interesting hack we developed for Bridgy but I'm not sure it's a pattern to replicate
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Jeena
and it is not quite clear with the news.indiewebcamp.com example what this would be for, I thought you are reinventing the old searchengine ping
#
Loqi
Jeena: aaronpk left you a message 4 hours, 29 minutes ago: thanks for the PRs! they are live on quill.p3k.io now! http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437833508899
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Jeena
neat aaronpk and I saw that you also added post via email
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tantek
ok all caught up on the logs ...
#
tantek
rhiaro++ for doing an awesome job with kicking off the first IWC Edinburgh!
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Loqi
rhiaro has 130 karma
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kylewm
rhiaro++
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Loqi
rhiaro has 131 karma
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kylewm
jarofgreen++
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Loqi
jarofgreen has 1 karma
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tantek
jarofgreen++
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Loqi
jarofgreen has 2 karma
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tantek.com
edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+5) "portland/brighton was 5th annual" (view diff)
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@t
1st ever #IndieWebCamp Edinburgh off to a great start! Day 1 notes http://t.co/MUlYdLjOrg, sign up & go hack on day 2! (ttk.me t4cM1) (twtr.io/121BuQur0Bj)
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gRegorLove
Afternoon, indiewebcamp
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@meedabyte
Why We All Need to Make the Internet Fun Again http://recode.net/2015/07/17/why-we-all-need-to-make-the-internet-fun-again/?utm_content=buffer230ff&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #amazing @caseorganic on #decentralization #indieweb (twtr.io/121Cze3q7nC)
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aaronpk
tantek: syndication brainstorming is basically just describing what bridgy publish does
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aaronpk
the first part anyway
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aaronpk
h-entry + push doesn't work for selective syndication
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aaronpk
you would have to make a separate feed for "syndicate these things to indienews" or "syndicate these things to twitter" and then be able to put your posts in each feed
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@Idl3
RT @meedabyte: Why We All Need to Make the Internet Fun Again http://recode.net/2015/07/17/why-we-all-need-to-make-the-internet-fun-again/?utm_content=buffer230ff&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #amazing @caseorganic on #decentralization #indieweb (twtr.io/121E2WVmVUa)
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tantek
aaronpk - we should write that up then
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tantek
simple standards based syndication SSBS :)
#
tantek
and its limitations
#
Loqi
[bridgy] Bowling Ball USA favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/t/status/625018445357256704)
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tantek
e.g. does not support selective syndication
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aaronpk
h-feed + PuSH is great for aggregators
#
tantek
and "publisher must support separate feeds for any syndication customization per destination"
#
tantek
(uh what's up with that favorite)
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aaronpk
this is the problem with the IRC notifications showing the "name" in the h-card vs the URL
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snarfed
URLs are often bad too though, right?
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snarfed
e.g. that's exactly the problem we're fixing in https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/44
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aaronpk
huh
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tantek
no this is not that problem
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snarfed
URLs may be better on average for indie wms, but probably worse on average for silos
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tantek
the URL wouldn't really have helped
#
tantek
snarfed: it's a mix for Twitter - since SOME PEOPLE change their display name (ahem kylewm ;) )
#
snarfed
right, that's actually a somewhat common pattern
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aaronpk
i don't know what you mean, that's exactly what happened tantek. @bowlingball_usa did in fact favorite your tweet, which linked to the wiki
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snarfed
but not across all silos or indie sites, so maybe twitter specific
#
tantek
aaronpk: check that account. follows 1 person. 43.8k favorites. WTF?
#
tantek
snarfed: right
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snarfed
this is more thought than that fave is worth
#
aaronpk
indeed
#
snarfed
:P
#
tantek
likely due to how Twitter chose to display names - so people messed with it to have fun
#
tantek
why is a bowling ball twitter faving my IWC tweet? how did they find it?
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aaronpk
i thought most silos let you set your profile URL, typically it is {silo domain}/{silo username}
#
tantek
oh kylewm changed his display name back
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aaronpk
with variations like {username}.{silo domain}
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aaronpk
or if you're google, google.com/+{username}
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tantek
aaronpk: *some* silos let you set your profile URL
#
tantek
e.g. Flickr, FB
#
tantek
distinct from your "user name"
#
aaronpk
my point is facebook is the only silo i've seen that insists on using non-username profile URLs
#
aaronpk
as in, in all cases except facebook, I would rather see the author URL in a noitification like that
#
snarfed
aaronpk: most G+ profile urls are also ids
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aaronpk
ah yeah
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snarfed
bridgy provides username when available. i propose NAME (USERNAME)
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aaronpk
i don't use G+
#
tantek
yes this is an interesting design display problem
#
tantek
heck, everyone has this problem
#
tantek
at least everyone that displays /reply-context for example
#
tantek
would be interesting to see what approaches people are taking
#
tantek
see if there are any patterns emerging
#
aaronpk
I decided to show it as "{domain name} {name}" with the domain in blue and the name in light grey
#
snarfed
also sgtm
#
aaronpk
on my site i mean
#
snarfed
yeah i got it
#
snarfed
tantek: i'm working on https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/44 and more importantly maybe https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/issues/39 imminently, if aaronpk doesn't preempt me
#
snarfed
…so design ideas soon would be welcome!
#
tantek
ah, a-ha!
#
tantek
some text first design I presume :)
#
snarfed
heh these are notifs, so text only
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Loqi
[bridgy] Robin Taylor favorited a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/t/status/625018445357256704)
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@IndieWebCampUK
RT @t: 1st ever #IndieWebCamp Edinburgh off to a great start! Day 1 notes http://t.co/MUlYdLjOrg, sign up & go hack on day 2! (ttk.me t4cM1) (twtr.io/121GNL2ZpeC)
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Loqi
[bridgy] IndieWebCampUK retweeted a tweet that linked to http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Edinburgh (https://twitter.com/IndieWebCampUK/status/625030945377226752)
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GWG
snarfed: I might be a while with those unit tests. I seem to have started ripping part of Post Kinds apart.
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KevinMarks
"I know, I'll make my card caching behave properly and use http 304" - me yesterday, now currently breaking into the zoo with clippers
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kylewm
"Take me to your wooliest yak."
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GWG
kylewm: I feel a witty reply coming in, but I'll resist it
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@chim0
mkay, my instance now sends webmentions to links in local users' notices...¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (twtr.io/121JSSqB4tM)
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KartikPrabhu
loqi messages?
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Loqi
KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 2 hours, 3 minutes ago: re: "mostly concerned that the wiki might be out of date 2010" - if that's so, you need to speak up about it. Either use the wiki (feel free to check citations / references), or if you're concerned, *ask* - don't assume "might be out of date". Because then there's no chance of it being fixed if it is. http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437848607911
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KartikPrabhu
fair enough. I mostly don't pay attention to search stuff as it is not relevant for me
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KartikPrabhu
but I should have my facts right while anwering questions
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GWG
aaronpk, how do you store your reply contexts?
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GWG
Namely, the data beyond the URL.
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Kongaloosh
Dumb template question: I've made a https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Kongaloosh.com, but when I go {{kongaloosh}} it points me to another template...
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Kongaloosh
what am I doing wrong?
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kongaloosh.com
edited /collection (+315) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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gor_zilla
question: is indie auth intended to be 1 user per (sub)domain or can i use www.domain.com/profile/gorzilla ?
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gor_zilla
i'm trying known running on my server and it doesn't seem to put the me tags on the root page
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gor_zilla
indieweb wiki allows it, quill doesn't
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aaronpk
there's a specific theme that has the links on the home page, I forget which one
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gor_zilla
ah cool. i was looking for a config page for the plugin but it does it all in the background
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KevinMarks
they just changed the themes I think. Solo is the one that is emant for single-user sites and puts the rel-me on the front page
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tantek
Kongaloosh: the two are unrelated, e.g. see {{t}} for an example
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tantek
wonders if Loqi should autolink {{t}} to https://indiewebcamp.com/Template:t in the logs the way it already links /reply to https://indiewebcamp.com/reply
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Loqi
woot!
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tantek
KevinMarks: how did GG go?
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kongaloosh.com
edited /User:Kongaloosh.com (+750) "/* Kongaloosh */" (view diff)
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KevinMarks
I talked about SWAT0 and explained it, but they didn't play the video
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KevinMarks
I think they'll link to it
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gor_zilla
seem to be getting a blank response from the token endpoint
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gor_zilla
oh i think i'll have to try again tomorrow. i'm on the train and my battery is about to die
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_fran
it will die valiantly, if trying to authenticate
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gor_zilla
hmm, works on the wiki but not quill. is the wiki just really forgiving or is quill extra harsh?
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KevinMarks
https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/625002489943752704
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@kevinmarks
that SWAT0 demo I was talking about on Gillmor Gang: https://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/14/1/swat0 @stevegillmor @TinaGillmor @kteare @dbfarber @jtaschek (twtr.io/1216CS7FtXj)
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KevinMarks
I should have labelled this with the handy snark tag https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/625002952831270912
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@kevinmarks
@rivenhomewood @danlyke can you make an ISO image of the CD and mount it from that? CD-ROMs are 650M, which is less than a Verge article (twtr.io/1216NMPtegs)
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tantek
wow that's. goodness sakes.
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@TT_SemWeb
2015/Edinburgh - IndieWebCamp http://t.co/rdz9aSI0AJ, see more http://tweetedtimes.com/topic/RWW/semantic-web?s=tnp (twtr.io/121T1ejVL8Y)
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@blognoon
2015/Edinburgh - IndieWebCamp http://t.co/aCmlKu9m70, see more http://tweetedtimes.com/v/3112?s=tnp (twtr.io/121TDKk8CaC)
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@idanceinbetween
RT @meedabyte: Why We All Need to Make the Internet Fun Again http://recode.net/2015/07/17/why-we-all-need-to-make-the-internet-fun-again/?utm_content=buffer230ff&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer #amazing @caseorganic on #decentralization #indieweb (twtr.io/121TUCTJTQo)
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snarfed
hey aaronpk, i'm working on ruby again, following https://gist.github.com/aaronpk/4d84e452e94c6c12cc06
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snarfed
so ruby-install installs in ~/.rubies/ for users and /opt/ruby/ for root
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snarfed
…ok…and i can run ruby from either place manually
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snarfed
…but how do i get bundle to use one of those instead of the system /usr/bin/ruby when i run bundle exec rake db:bootstrap ?
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aaronpk
oh you might need chruby for that
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aaronpk
yeah that should set the paths for things
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KevinMarks
at 21 minutes into http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/25/gillmor-gang-fare-trade/
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@kevinmarks
I discuss the #indieweb SWAT0 test passing at 21' into this Gillmor Gang episode http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/25/gillmor-gang-fare-trade/ (twtr.io/121ZPSG1Qks)
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@cubicgarden
RT @kevinmarks: I discuss the #indieweb SWAT0 test passing at 21' into this Gillmor Gang episode http://techcrunch.com/2015/07/25/gillmor-gang-fare-trade/ (twtr.io/121ZUReMwBk)
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snarfed
aaronpk: looks like chruby will do the trick, thanks
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snarfed
will update the wmio readme
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aaronpk
great
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snarfed
…on to the next ruby breakage. :/ bundle exec … says "Could not find rake-10.4.0 in any of the sources; Run `bundle install` to install missing gems."
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snarfed
bundle install and bundle check both ran happily. all of the libs are installed in vendor/bundle/ruby/2.0.0/ , which seems odd, since i'm using ruby 2.1.6 (checked with ruby -v)
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snarfed
i'm starting to feel like god is trying to tell me something
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aaronpk
eh if it runs i wouldn't worry about it
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snarfed
it doesn't
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snarfed
i definitely wouldn't worry if it ran :P
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aaronpk
oh
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snarfed
working on it, let me know if you have any instincts
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aaronpk
that is bizarre...
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aaronpk
no idea. normally my gems get installed in ~/.gem/ruby/2.1.6
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aaronpk
i don't actually know how that is decided. my ruby skillz are like not that great
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snarfed
heh. at least yours exist :P
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snarfed
ok. i'll keep poking
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aaronpk
k, sorry!
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snarfed
np! not your fault
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GWG
snarfed: You use the WordPress Post UI to write things, right?
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snarfed
GWG: nah, emacs and markdown
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GWG
snarfed: Interesting.
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GWG
How do you get it into WordPress then?
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snarfed
a markdown plugin and https://snarfed.org/blogpost
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snarfed
http://github.com/snarfed/snarfed.org is the canonical source
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snarfed
oh btw GWG np on delaying unit tests, but you should still finish up https://github.com/snarfed/wordpress-micropub/pull/15 regardless! it'd be good to get in
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GWG
snarfed: I fixed it and sent it back to you a few days ago
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Loqi
slack/snarfed: GWG: oh! thanks, I'll look. i don't automatically follow your fork and get notified of your commits, so you'll want to comment in the PR when you do that
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GWG
Oops
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GWG
Sorry for the delay. My cousin was on TV and I went to go try to spot him
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@avilarenata
RT @conflictmedia: Cool and important work is done on #federation & #decentralization http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html http://indiewebcamp.com/ @w3c #i… (twtr.io/121qMqnthpc)
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@carimachet
RT @conflictmedia: Cool and important work is done on #federation & #decentralization http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html http://indiewebcamp.com/ @w3c #i… (twtr.io/121qWE22Gxb)
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (-27) "/* TODO */ update and reoganize a little bit" (view diff)
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /User:Ben.thatmustbe.me (+92) "/* TODO */ ideas for how to proceed." (view diff)
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I had a question for you, but can't remember what it was. This is my declaration.
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ben_thatmustbeme
damn, now i went and opened this room, i'll lose my place tomorrow
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ben_thatmustbeme
all well
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Loqi
ben_thatmustbeme: aaronpk left you a message 11 hours, 30 minutes ago: I filled in a bunch of the brainstorming page, would be great to get your thoughts on how alice would get a bearer token for the syndication target: http://indiewebcamp.com/syndication-brainstorming http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437836286441
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KevinMarks
there's always the webpage
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ben_thatmustbeme
yeah, i'll read it tomorrow
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ben_thatmustbeme
bleary eyed right now
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KevinMarks
discovers that Apple Time Machine doesn't GC backups
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ben_thatmustbeme
also have idea on how to make that work for syndication. pretty simple
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ben_thatmustbeme
okay
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ben_thatmustbeme
goodnight
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GWG
!tell acegiak I have some more crazy ideas and need a WordPress user to run them by when you have a moment
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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acegiak
GWG: I'm listening
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Loqi
acegiak: GWG left you a message 1 minute ago: I have some more crazy ideas and need a WordPress user to run them by when you have a moment http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-07-25/line/1437877929538
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GWG
acegiak: I'm reworking the meta data by moving the functions to process it from the save_post code to the Meta class I created.
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GWG
acegiak: While I was doing that, it occurred to me that I could pass a query parameter into post-new.php and preset the kind in the selector.
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acegiak
net
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acegiak
neat*
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GWG
acegiak: Which made me think...if I tell it what kind I want, why can't I customize the input section based on that?
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acegiak
:/
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GWG
I had been avoiding it because I don't do much JS, which would be required to do it.
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GWG
But this way, it could be done in PHP
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acegiak
as in prepopulating the fields?
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acegiak
or hiding the irrelevant ones?
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GWG
acegiak: Hiding the irrelevant ones.
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GWG
And altering the title to help newer people understand what goes in them
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GWG
Then I could add a menu to the menu bar on the dashboard to quickly head to the presets
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acegiak
GWG: I'm hella skeptical of hiding fields
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acegiak
that's super prescriptive
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acegiak
"nono, when you like/repost/bookmark a thing it should look like this, if you want to use these fields you can't because they're not the right fields for that post kind"
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GWG
I was thinking of the specialized fields for things like audio, where I'd want to possibly add fields.
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GWG
For example, on a piece of music, I might want things like Genre and Release Date
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ben.thatmustbe.me
edited /syndication-brainstorming (+730) "/* Syndicate by Content Brainstorming section added */ aaronpk, please review, too tired to work through everything right now" (view diff)
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GWG
Of course, Release Date maps to Publication Date on a URL/article.
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GWG
Not sure what Genre is the equivalent of.
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GWG
Site Name, Publication Name, and Album Name are effectively the same thnig
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GWG
I don't want to hide anything anyone would be using, which is the problem in doing it.
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GWG
But in getting into more complex types...the list is going to grow pretty long.
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ben_thatmustbeme
GWG, be careful of that trap
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: Which one?
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ben_thatmustbeme
don't start going too deep in to "someone might want this"
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ben_thatmustbeme
unless there is a demonstrated need
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ben_thatmustbeme
otherwise you end up at schema.org
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GWG
Someone might want to do what?
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ben_thatmustbeme
releast date, genre
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ben_thatmustbeme
etc
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ben_thatmustbeme
s/east/ease/
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GWG
ben_thatmustbeme: I actually like audio metadata. Of course, I don't post that very often. I was trying to get to RSVPs, which have a field only relevant for RSVPs.
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acegiak
GWG: Just do what you need for now but make your structure easily expandable
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GWG
Trying to dictate too many restrictions is a problem because people want to use things they way they want to use them.
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GWG
Trying to have no restrictions is harder for newcomers.
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GWG
acegiak: I've been rewriting the meta storage stuff because I was working on the Micropub plugin. I want to be set up to store more microformats2 properties in the meta, even if they aren't used right now.
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GWG
It came out of the Micropub design discussions. Micropub can store any arbitrary data, even if the receiving end doesn't know how to use it.
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GWG
So, aaronpk, for example, has Teacup, which does food and drink. He uses the non-standard tags p3k-food and p3k-drink. Even if I don't know what to do with those, I want to keep them.
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GWG
That was on the Micropub side. On the Post Kind side, I want to have the functions work with all mf2_ prefixed values, and understands the established ones.
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GWG
Oh, well.
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Loqi
[bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1455747814748163#10153207231627701 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-07-29-homebrew-website-club
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Loqi
[bridgy] https://www.facebook.com/1455747814748163#10102125907725748 was invited to https://indiewebcamp.com/events/2015-07-29-homebrew-website-club
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@AlexKKearney
A discussion of my first nine weeks in #indieweb. http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/26/9-weeks-of-indieweb (twtr.io/1220LnohjG4)
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Kongaloosh
and I broke it :<
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@AlexKKearney
A discussion of my first nine weeks in #indieweb. http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/26/9-weeks-of-indieweb (twtr.io/1224H4YGAXU)
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@AlexKKearney
Okay, so after fixing an unfortunate unicode error, here's the actual post: http://kongaloosh.com/e/2015/7/26/9-weeks-of-indieweb (twtr.io/1224p47LS1b)
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KartikPrabhu
!tell snarfed: for app engine do I really have to include all dependencies as submodules?
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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kylewm
!tell KartikPrabhu no you don't (Bridgy doesn't use submodules anymore!) basically you can install deps into a virtualenv and include the virtualenv folder when you deploy to app engine. there are some tricks to setting up the path though http://stackoverflow.com/a/25564125/682648
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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(or join via IRC, Matrix, or Slack)