2020/West/here-today
Here Today, Gone Tomorrow was a session at IndieWebCamp West 2020.
Watch: ▶️1:00:38s
Notes archived from etherpad: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/here-today
IndieWebCamp West 2020
Session: Here Today, Gone Tomorrow
When: 2020-06-27 14:30
Proposal
- Exploring the importance of media preservation as it relates to the IndieWeb and the ephemerality of digital information.
- This might also involve a wider conversation about media preservation in both analog and digital formats
- Some questions we might address:
- Do you archive copies of the pages you bookmark?
- Do you use technology vs a workflow to archive your bookmarks? (e.g. Pinboard vs manually using WayBack machine)
- See Also
Participants
hibs (facilitator)- Joseph Dickson
fluffy
gRegor Morrill
Peter Molnar
Marty McGuire
Angelo Gladding
paulopinto- Beto Dealmeida
- Steve Williams
Chaitanya
Manton Reece- Add yourself here… (see this for more details)
Notes
Joseph Dickson's rough notes and thoughts https://www.linuxbookpro.com/here-today-gone-tomorrow/ Content disappears from silos due to a multitude of reasons. Copyright, hosting, technology, file formats. Digital Ethics: If a request asks for us to take content down that's been archived how do respond? An example could be a post written years ago where the author doensn't still hold that opinion and wants it deleted from the web.
hibs suggests prioritizing what you want to preserve and displayed a Pyramid of information as an evulation example.
Wisdom- If, Then
Understanding - Why
Knowledge - How
Information- Who, What Where, When
Data - Basic Facts
Manton Reece mentioned Indie Paper as an alternative to instapaper
marty mcguire mentioned using Perkeep to create a personal acrchive of your digital content.
hibs: there are media silos at risk because users don't realize the preservation situation.
- shares a link about hollywood archivists struggling
- as we bookmark and share things we find on the web, we should (potentially) archive them as well
- uses pinboard to keep bookmarks. pinboard keeps an archive of pages you bookmark so you can revisit them.
- shows her own visualizations of delicious bookmarking service home page over time (in ~2005)
- "metadata is a love letter to the future" – by Jason Scott
- folksonomies (collaboratively managed tagging)
- see related
cweiske's approach for saving images by adding source urls (and additional meta information) to it: http://cweiske.de/tagebuch/exif-url.htm
Peter Molnar's PASTA script:
https://github.com/petermolnar/silo.pasta
fluffy brought up content format issues, eg Flash content getting lost, realmedia being very hard to play
- client side rendering makes it very hard to preserve sites
- flash with dynamic content is definitely lost
digital preservation gets trickier over time
- flash gone away
- saving a snapshot of a page may not get e.g. any data dynamically-loaded by javascript
- players for tapes and disks stop being produced and wear out (and media wears out)
- will PDF someday stop being supported?
- open formats will probably live longer, see DNG
- open & popular formats are the safest best (eg. JPG)
- emulation is a thing, and archive.org is leaning into it: https://archive.org/search.php?query=TOSEC
- not just for old games but also for software that is hard to preserve e.g. because the hardware that runs it goes away.
hibs: as an archivist, if you entrust the longevity of data to someone else, eventually it will go away.
"The Long Web"
previous IndieWeb sessions on ethics and copyright, including the idea and the outlines for a licence detenction algorithm:
Peter Molnar tells a story of how recovering his original 1999 website failed, leaving him with the earliest from 2002 instead:
- https://petermolnar.net/article/content-archeology/index.html
- iso-8859-2 should burn, but ő and ű are love
saving screenshots of pages?
- gRegor: I think
Aaron Parecki's bookmarks used to take a screenshot, not sure it's working anymore: https://aaronparecki.com/bookmarks - Looks like it's working on some bookmarks: https://aaronparecki.com/2020/04/19/13/
manton mentions quotebacks and how he uses them to note snippets of things he's bookmarking or linking to
- https://quotebacks.net/
- even if the link goe away, he has the copied text. this makes him want to bookmark more!
related software for archiving and saving webpages:
- https://getpolarized.io/
- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/single-file/ - Firefox addon to save a fully inline{css,js,image,etc} HTML (similar to MHTML)
Data Information Knowledge Understanding Wisdom
- a hierarchy of information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIKW_pyramid
- do these help us decide what to keep and when?
manton wonders: should micro.blog handle (more of) this for its users?
schmarty: briefly demos his local perkeep.org
- archives all of his tweets, pinboard posts, swarm checkins
- pinboard importer currently broken??
- also keeps all of his photos in here
- it's a very code/dev heavy tool if you want to do more than surface-level browsing / tagging / searching your stuff