rename to IndieWeb

From IndieWeb

Renamed to IndieWeb was a proposal from the 2016 Leaders Summit, to change our primary identity from "IndieWebCamp" to "IndieWeb". This will help differentiate the IndieWeb community from individual IndieWeb events (i.e. Homebrew Website Club or IndieWebCamp)


On July 4th, 2016:


What we discussed explicitly at the IndieWeb Leaders Summit:

  • Redirect all URLs on to
  • Move the primary IRC channel to #indieweb (with topic-specific subchannels in #indieweb-dev and #indieweb-chat, bridged with Slack)


  • We do not own (inactive)
  • We do not own (private/inactive)
  • Another new logo??


  • Participants were encouraged to +1/0/-1 this specific proposal.
    • In particular, PLEASE express any concerns ASAP so they can be discussed and addressed
  • Changes were adopted on July 4, 2016 (US's Independence Day)


  • add your vote, optional comment, and your signature with ~~~~
  • +1 Shane Becker 2016-06-08 17:40 -0700
  • +1 gRegor Morrill 17:42, 8 June 2016 (PDT)
  • +1 Aaron Parecki 18:13, 8 June 2016 (PDT)
  • +1 Kyle Mahan 18:34, 8 June 2016 (PDT)
  • +1 Joschi Kuphal (participated remotely) 10:04, 9 June 2016 (CEST)
  • +1 Julie Anne Noying 10:10, 9 June 2016 (CEST)
  • +1 Tantek Çelik I'm sure there's a reason we went with IndieWebCamp originally, perhaps because we set the site up for 2011 (which started at the home page), and then added pages for session notes, then added topical pages. But clearly "IndieWeb" has grown beyond just the camps, both with other events, and more importantly, as a 24x7 online community and resource.
  • +1 Chris Aldrich | 23:32, 9 June 2016 (PDT) In particular, I like the parallelism with other communities WordPress:WordCamp::Drupal:DrupalCamp, etc. It also portends to help Generations >1 for onboarding.
  • +1 Will Norris 10:23, 11 June 2016 (PDT)
  • +1 Ben Werdmüller 13:55, 13 June 2016 (PDT)
  • +1 Kevin Marks 13:58, 13 June 2016 (PDT)
  • +1 bear 14:13, 13 June 2016 (PDT)
  • +1 Lukas Rosenstock 06:27, 14 June 2016 (PDT)
  • +1 David Shanske
  • +1 Brennan Novak IIRC, the *camp* part was added because the format of the event was modeled after BarCamp, and we didn't really know how it would evolve... 16:47, 24 June 2016
  • ...


On July 4th:

As proposed (see top, and discussions at IndieWeb Leaders Summit 2016) and then subsequently +1'd:

  • DONE: Redirect all URLs on to
  • DONE: Move the primary IRC channel to #indieweb
    • with topic-specific subchannels in #indieweb-dev and #indieweb-chat
    • bridged with Slack
  • Set up new IRC logs and web interface (URLs TBD, see below, however note that no "chat subdomain" was discussed so that should not be assumed)
    • DONE: New chat logs are at but do not yet have streaming and cannot join the chat from the web interface

Additional Consensus Details

The following additional details appear to have consensus (at least one option with no -1/-0)

ACTION: Please check the "Consensus:" line on each child subsection to see if you can live with that. If you have any objections (for any reason with new information please), PLEASE raise it in our main discussion channel ASAP!

where to put newsletter


  • DONE: just keep this-week subdirectory

newsletter subdomain


  • -1 Tantek Çelik - Similar criticisms as other non-essential subdomains above. Leave this alone as it can work just fine as-is with existing /this-week path handling. So in short, just switch the domain and don't do any extra work.
  • -1 Aaron Parecki - This isn't enough of an "application" to warrant its own subdomain
  • 0 Shane Becker
  • -0 Kyle Mahan
  • -1 bear it would need to have more features to warrant it's own subdomain
  • ...

just keep this-week subdirectory

  • Do nothing. The existing step to redirect to will result in and that's just fine and less work.


consolidate with

...or wherever that existing site (IndieNews) resolves to after discussion above.

Since this-week serves, in part, as a weekly archive of submissions to IndieNews, archiving them there makes sense to me. With the current URLs, it might look like:


  • One entry point for indieweb news and archived emails.
  • ...


  • May not be possible/easy depending on how the IndieNews and this-week are implemented currently.
  • this-week is only in English currently and IndieNews supports multiple languages.
  • ...


  • +0 gRegor Morrill I proposed this but don't have strong feelings. Aaron's suggestion for above would resolve this issue.
  • -1 Aaron Parecki - I view this-week as more than just archives of IndieNews submissions (it currently includes previous and upcoming events, new people, new wiki pages and wiki edits), and I also have plans to add more sources of information to it over time. I'm also happy to take suggestions on the wiki or even suggestions via implementation. If you can provide me a URL with mf2 then I can probably get it into the newsletter!
  • +1 David Shanske I see IndieNews as a place to submit articles, and This Week in the IndieWeb as the newsletter, which should incorporate new articles in IndieNews for that week. I think they should be organized together. Not necessarily integrated to the degree they are the same thing.
  • -1 Tantek Çelik They mean different things. "this week" is way more today, and may become even more in the future (we've kept adding to it)
  • -1 Shane Becker News and newsletter are different things. Newsletter can certainly continue to pull from news though.
  • -1 Kyle Mahan keep 'em separated, more flexible/maintainable.
  • ...

where to put etherpad


  • DONE: move to

leave at


  • -0 Aaron Parecki - Does not require any additional work, and is mostly used during IndieWebCamp events anyway. However I think it would be nice to move it to the domain to match everything else.
  • +0 Tantek Çelik - could live with for ease of work / postponing / decoupling from 2016-07-04.

move to


  • +1 Aaron Parecki - Matches the rest of the domain move, not a lot of work to move it here anyway.
  • +1 Tantek Çelik seems sensible, more consistent, and different cookie/access than, so (existing) subdomain (still) makes sense here.
  • +1 bear

where to put slack invite page

(currently at

This is a single PHP page that people can put their email address into to receive an invite to join the Slack room.

Consensus (no objections) either OR:

just re-use existing Slack page

The existing Slack page works right now. Let's keep using it.


slack subdomain

  • Redirect to


  • -1 Aaron Parecki
  • -1 Kyle Mahan yeah this confuses the heck out of me -- can never remember whether to go to or
  • -0 Tantek Çelik dislike in general because of subdomain use, yet has been easy to tell new people to go there.
  • -1 Shane Becker - this behavior should be a part of the chat page (with subdomain or subdirectory, whichever is chosen)
  • -1 gRegor Morrill
  • -1 Ben Roberts totally agree with Kyle Mahan having and is really messy
  • ...

move to a page on new chat logs

  • Depending on the URL of the new chat logs:


  • +1 Aaron Parecki - Either way the chat URLs end up, I like this better especially since the chat logs will no longer have "IRC" in the URL
  • +1 bear to either
  • +1 Kyle Mahan to either (or just inline on /chat)
  • +0 Tantek Çelik ok with either pending orthogonal subdomain decision
  • 0 Shane Becker either is good (I'd prefer that it's a part of the top level chat page (either or
  • +1 gRegor Morrill and agreed it should be inline at the top-level page. Promote our web-chat version first, then Slack alternative below that.
  • +1 Ben Roberts feel like all chat-related things should be grouped together, irc-app, slack invite, and logs under chat subdomain or /chat
  • ...

Additional Required Details

Additional details, determined after the IndieWeb Summit, as being required (or passive but explicit non-decisions) that will impact the switch on the 4th (per Aaron Parecki (primary rename implementer) determination in Etherpad).

ACTION: Please check the the various options and add your opinion ASAP. New information / citations to back up your opinion are especially appreciated!

where to put IRC logs



  • a place for #indieweb logs
  • a place for #indieweb-dev logs

Consensus (so far)

  • subdomain (instead of subdirectory) - see below for discussion
  • ... other details pending

chat subdomain

  • Set up new IRC logs and web interface on


  • +1 Tantek Çelik - updated opinion per Kevin Marks arguments. we *do* have a use-case driven need for different cookie/login for chat (vs *requiring* indieweb default indieauth sign-in) both with existing Web-based UI, and the desire to keep that "easy to join" aspect moving forward. Thus from a cookie/sign-in perspective a different subdomain makes sense for chat interface. And then it makes more sense to keep the logs (uneditable/not login based anyway) together with the chat interface rather than separate.
    • Was: -1 A subdomain before "indieweb" dilutes the brand of "indieweb", no CORS/different-origin need for a subdomain for chat logs.
  • +1 Aaron Parecki - I think a chat application (which is essentially what this is) is different enough from the wiki that it's fine to have it be a subdomain. I also like the idea of telling people to "go to to join the chat room from the web page, IRC or Slack".
  • +1 David Shanske Since this is a web interface for chats, not just the chat logs, I am in favor. I would be against if it was only the chat logs.
  • +1 bear I like this as it allows for a chat oriented landing page that can link to other parts: logs, slack, faq
    • 0 Tantek Çelik this would be the same either way - a landing page can work both ways.
  • +0 Kyle Mahan I think this would be fine but not particularly better than a /chat subdir
  • +1 Shane Becker
  • +1 Kevin Marks chat currently has a different, easier sign-in that demonstrably works better for new users. Putting indieauth in the way of thta would be a regression. It also enables gateway wiki reading and editing via Loqi. I do see that being signed into the wiki identifying me in the chat would also be nice, but they are different.
    • +1 Aaron Parecki agreed that we don't want to make indieauth sign-in a requirement to join the room, and similarly that if you *are* signed in to the wiki, it should be able to identify you from that
  • +1 Brennan Novak Since one of the reasons for subdomains is to make it easier to have services on different servers, "chat" seems a no brainer as it is a essentially an "app" and totally different from the wiki. I really don't understand Tantek Çelik concern about "dilutes the brand" and I do branding design for a living. I wager making a uniform header bar across all the subdomains that has intuitive information architecture will enhance "the brand" more than any URL structure.
  • +1 Ben Roberts I think a subdomain is fine for this, it does feel like a different app. Also /chat now exists in the wiki.
  • +0 gRegor Morrill no strong opinion on this, but it is easier now that /chat exists as a wiki page.
  • ...

chat subdirectory

Updated: This section has been simplified and a separate polling section set up for URL paths. Please revise your opinions here and in the new section.

  • Set up new IRC logs and web interface at
    • "chat" is better than the current "IRC" because "chat" is meaningful, less jargony, and general, rather than "IRC" which is a jargon acronym, "internet relay" adds no essential meaning, and "IRC" is plumbing specific, which makes less sense as we bridge to Slack and possibly other chat services / sources (Matrix, possibly indieweb messages in the future etc.). - Tantek Çelik


  • +1 Tantek Çelik only because less work for launch. Open to considering subdomain alternative if the goal(s) truly is/are to turn into something beyond just IndieWeb community specific, e.g. as brainstormed in chat.
  • -1 Aaron Parecki - once you add the channel name to the URL, I feel like the path of is too long. IMO looks better because of the shorter path. Additionally, telling people to join the chat room by going to "" is more cumbersome since it requires saying two different punctuation marks ("dot" and "slash") instead of just "dot".
    • +0 Tantek Çelik hmm, the shorter path (fewer path segments) does look slightly better I have to agree. Not sure why. Will think about it.
  • 0 gRegor Morrill no strong opinion on this.
  • +0 David Shanske for chat over irc and for creating a section or landing area for chat logs, webchat, and the Slack bridge together. (See separating above.)
  • +0 Kyle Mahan - ambivalent. chat subdomain gives us more flexibility in the future to separate the chat logs/application from the wiki, so I'll defer to the implementers on whichever they'd prefer.
  • -1 Shane Becker on subdirectory
  • -1 Brennan Novak makes hosting independently of wiki and other parts of the site harder
  • ...

URL paths of chat logs

Whether the base URL for chat becomes or, this section is for voting on the paths that come after the base URL.

This section is separated out from "where to put the IRC logs". Please clarify your existing opinions there and here.


  • Main channel (currently #indiewebcamp, will be #indieweb)
  • Sub channel: (new channel #indieweb-dev)
  • Not archiving thus irrelevant to options: #indiechat and any renaming thereof

short scheme (imply "indieweb")

  • Main channel logs: {base}/ and {base}/2016-07-04
  • Sub channel logs: {base}/dev and {base}/dev/2016-07-04


date or channel primary


  • date-primary vs channel-primary not explicitly discussed!


  • /2016-07-04/dev vs. /dev/2016-07-04


  • Tantek Çelik date-primary (/2016-07-04 and /2016-07-04/dev) more consistent with good URL design, HOWEVER, data (per bear prodding) shows (krijnh, csswg) existing logs are channel-primary with date at end (makes easier to change date to go next/prev day) e.g.:
    • 2016-07-04 - shows archive for main channel for 2016-07-04
    • dev/2016-07-04 - shows archive for dev channel for 2016-07-04
    • see below for "/log/" prefix proposal too
  • Aaron Parecki channel-primary better represents the hierarchy of information in the URL. Information in chat channels are not aggregated across channels, so the channel being the primary separator follows that pattern. If you remove the path segment from the end of the URL {base}/dev/2016-07-04 then you are left with {base}/dev which has an obvious use as an index of dates for that channel. The other way around, there is no clear behavior (do we show a list of all channels that have activity on a specific date?)
  • ...
explicit log or archive in path

Issue: Explicit "log" or "archive(s)" in path? e.g. which of these for the root of logs?


E.g. with dev channel:


E.g. with main dated:


E.g. with dev dated:



  • Tantek Çelik
    • +1 /log/ or /archive/ (slight preference for shorter /log, but /archive may be more Generations friendly?)
    • -1 / (root should be the "app", sign-in, overview, channels, networks etc.
    • -0 /archives (I prefer singular)
  • ...
main channel at root or not


  • Should main channel exclude its channel name in the URL:s?


  • / and /dev vs /main and /dev?


  • Pelle Wessman For consistencies sake I would prefer all channels to always include some kind of channel name in their URL:s. This would also enable us to have an overarching page that could link to all the different archives and eg. also the wiki, the Slack signup etc. So I would prefer something like /main to go with /dev
  • Tantek Çelik for simplicity of common case sake, I prefer that our primary / general / main channel not have an explicit name URL segment. Keeps common chat URL permalinks shorter. Especially since the URL already had "chat" and "indieweb" in the string!
    • e.g. / and /dev, or /log and /log/dev
    • and or
  • ...

long scheme

  • Main channel logs: {base}/indieweb and {base}/indieweb/2016-07-04
  • Sub channel logs: {base}/indieweb-dev and {base}/indieweb-dev/2016-07-04



  • what about other channels / networks we log that are not indieweb?
    • e.g. existing
  • what about other channels / networks we log but don't show yet?
    • e.g. #microformats?


  • ... ???

where to put bookmark aggregator

(currently at

news subdomain

  • Redirect to


  • +0 Tantek Çelik - Similar criticisms as other non-essential subdomains above. "0" because we already (mistakenly? accidentally?) chose to use so this is less big of a change (it's a wash "0" rather than a backwards step "-1"). "-" on this because this is also an opportunity to fix that hasty/accidental use of a subdomain which we shouldn't have in the first place.
    • Note the contrast with Hacker News which does use "", which only makes sense because IT IS a whole different company than "ycombinator", and thus makes sense to have its own CORS/different-origin, as well as explicitly preferring the "news" brand over the "ycombinator" brand. None of that is the case of "IndieWeb News", and thus none of that applies (in terms of using a subdomain).
  • +0 Aaron Parecki - This is the easiest option and changes the least and is the least unexpected with the move of the main URL. "0" for the reasons tantek said above.
    • Tantek Çelik Changed -0 to +0 per aaronpk's reasons "is the easiest option and changes the least and is the least unexpected"
  • +1 Kyle Mahan - It's a totally separate application, not moderated and maintained like proper, and I think the subdomain sets that expectation correctly. Also I like the subtle reference/jab at HN.
  • -1 bear moving to seems to be a cleaner option (and clears the way to not require *any* subdomains) (yes, it pains me to write that)
  • +1 gRegor Morrill for easiest immediate option; could always be moved to later.
  • +1 Shane Becker same reasons as Kyle Mahan
  • +1 Brennan Novak same as Shane Becker and Kyle Mahan :P
  • ...

news subdirectory

  • Redirect to


  • 0 Tantek Çelik I think this is better, yet it will take work, so 0.
  • -1 Aaron Parecki Currently is a wiki page with some content and links. IndieNews (the name of the software at does not allow wiki-like contributions, so should not appear to be under the wiki namespace. However, if the software is modified to both allow wiki-like contributions (in addition to submission via webmention) then I would love to consolidate Posts_about_the_IndieWeb and videos_about_the_indieweb and presentations into it and host it at /news.
  • -1 bear
  • -1 gRegor Morrill for wiki name collision Aaron mentioned, and the consolidation of wiki + webmention sounds non-trivial
  • -1 Shane Becker url namespace collision
  • ...

leave it at

  • Do nothing because this is the easiest option


  • -1 Aaron Parecki - Seems weird to have this be the only thing left at
  • -1 Kyle Mahan - Weird
  • -1 bear yea, I feel strongly it should be all or nothing
  • -1 gRegor Morrill think I was misreading this before; I thought it was a given everything was redirecting to, whether to a subdomain or subdirectory.
  • -1 Tantek Çelik feels odd leaving this behind
  • -1 Shane Becker
  • ...

move to

  • Rename the project from "IndieNews" to "Gazette" and redirect to
    • Would require adding a URL path like "indieweb" in order to allow it to be used for other things as well, such as (+ etc) and


  • +0 Aaron Parecki - This is my favorite option despite it being the most work (I'd need to modify the project to allow the extra URL path). I feel a little bad that I launched this at back in 2013 since it was really more of a personal experiment at the time and I struggled to get it to catch on, until relatively recently when I started including new articles in the this-week newsletter. I've also had "Gazette" on the list of p3k names to be used as a aggregator anyway. This also makes our three wiki pages that list indieweb-related posts (Posts_about_the_IndieWeb, videos_about_the_indieweb, presentations) more different from this aggregator which is good because it makes them appear to overlap less.
  • +0 gRegor Morrill
  • +1 Tantek Çelik I think this is now my favorite option.
  • -1 Shane Becker I think this is a swell community resource that was maybe just too early.
  • -0 Kyle Mahan I'd prefer to keep it under the community banner -- * are generally tools/infra, unfortunately I don't think people would be nearly as likely to syndicate there. 0 because it's ultimately up to Aaron
  • +1 bear

Other Stuff Discussed

There was also some discussion at the IndieWeb Leaders Summit of an "" but more as an eventual possible explicit web application (not built yet), not as something we just flip a switch and (should) do.

There was also discussion of more possible chat channels yet we decided to postpone more channels until we first created the new channels above, got experience with them, and then only if there was a demonstrated need would we consider more channels.


A combination of later (async) thoughts/proposals that were discussed after the Summit.

You are encouraged to add your opinion (as in opinion polling) to proposals below.

If you don't see a proposal you like, OR if you think of a better proposal, please add more alternative proposals to the relevant subsections!

The goal here is discussion, not decision.

By providing your opinions (both direction, and more importantly, your reasoning), we can hopefully quickly see if there is broad consensus, or if not, the reasons for disagreement, and seek to understand, discuss, and hopefully resolve differences. "Voting" is NOT the goal in this Brainstorming section.

non-log based IRC chat stuff

new name for off topic channel

  • Does this actually matter for 2016-07-04 since it is not being logged (and therefore does not need a log/archive URL)? I suggest we punt on this and see where people end up. - Tantek Çelik

Originally from the set of channels discussed at the Leaders Summit, was indieweb-chat.


  • -1 gRegor Morrill "chat" is an ambiguous name for a Slack room. Would also duplicate "chat" in logs URL.
  • -1 Shane Becker - confusing what "chat" means
  • -1 Aaron Parecki - since we're using "chat" in the base URL, having this room named "chat" would be confusing
  • -1 Kyle Mahan
  • 0 Tantek Çelik - can live with it, or without it.
  • -1 bear
  • ...

Subsequent proposal for reasons offered in -1 opinions above. Opinions:

  • +1 gRegor Morrill Avoids duplicate "chat" in URL, and agree with Shane Becker
  • +1 Shane Becker - "offtopic" is a common name for this kind of channel
  • +1 David Shanske - Agree chat is ambigious
  • +1 Aaron Parecki - more clearly says what it's for, should hopefully help people self-segment conversations better
  • +1 Kyle Mahan - also fewer people stumbling on the channel wanting to talk indie music :)
  • -0 Tantek Çelik - "offtopic" feels like slightly tech-communication-centric jargon to me. It's not horrible, but it's not good either.
  • +1 bear
  • ...

Based on Slack's default "random" channel.

Despite the silo-pref, "indieweb-random" follows Slack’s naming conventions, which is likely to be *more* friendly to non-devs / and further Generations 2+ etc. since they are:

  1. more likely to have used Slack than IRC
  2. more likely to "get" random instead of "offtopic" which does tend to be a tech-community-centric piece of jargon


  • +1 Tantek Çelik (proposer) - Of the 8 Slack teams I'm on that I appear to be signed into:, 4 have random, 2 have no random, 1 renamed it to "notgames", 1 renamed to "indiechat". So 50% stick with the default. That's a clear enough sign for me. And zero have "offtopic" as a channel name. Just some data in the hopes of another alternative being considered from a design perspective (even if I myself am comfortable with "offtopic", hence the focus on Generations in the proposal).
  • -0 Aaron Parecki - While I understand the reasoning making it match Slack, the fact is we actually say "off topic" quite a lot in our IRC channel currently, especially when we are encouraging people to take off-topic conversations to #indiechat. Search our logs.
  • -0 bear our use of offtopic gives more weight to that option plus I really dislike slack ;)
  • ...
conclusion and follow-up

Lack of any consensus, rough or otherwise, for any off topic channel meant that at the time of this discussion, there was no conclusion, and nothing was done about it, so it was left as #indiechat which had been around since 2014.

Subsequently, #indiechat was renamed to #indieweb-chat, sometime before the 2017 Organizers meetup where #indieweb-chat was listed as pre-existing, and new channels (e.g. for #WordPress) were created.

More Brainstorming

See for more brainstorming on future potential changes after the July 4 switch.