2017/Organizers

From IndieWeb

The Organizers Summit is a half-day of activities and sessions before IndieWeb Summit 2017, for everyone who has co-organized an IndieWebCamp in the past two years or at least two Homebrew Website Club meetups with at least one meetup photo.

Who

Similar to 2016/Organizers, the Organizers Summit sessions are open to everyone who has co-organized an IndieWebCamp from 2015-2017 or at least two Homebrew Website Club meetups during those years, and posted at least one meetup photo. If you’re not sure, ask an organizer.

RSVP

Please add yourself below if you will be participating in the Organizers Summit (alphabetical by full name)

Remote Participation

If you can't make it in person but you're available to participate remotely, please add yourself below. Please note that we'll likely make use of Mozilla's remote conference setup, which requires the Vidyo Desktop Client. The link to join the live chat is at https://2017.indieweb.org/vidyo

Regrets

Sorry to miss you, let us know if you can't make it and we'll try to reach out with specifics that may apply to your city.

When

KURE Promise.
Good enough for breakfast, good enough for IndieWeb!
  • Friday June 23, 9am Pacific Time
    • 2017-06-23 09:00 - 13:30 PDT (UTC-7)
    • 2017-06-23 16:00 - 20:30 UTC
    • 2017-06-23 18:00 - 22:30 CEST (UTC+2)

Schedule

Friday 2017-06-23:

  • 08:15 Organizers breakfast at Kure Juice Bar
  • 09:00 Organizers Summit (LS) start & intros
  • 09:30 Organizers Summit Sessions
  • 13:00 Organizers Summit Wrap-up & Next Steps
  • 13:30 Organizers Summit closes and
  • 13:37 lunch outside and free time
  • 15:30 meet back at MozPDX for afternoon activities outside - stay tuned!
    • ...

Other Organizers related activities (just FYI, unless you want to help)

  • 15:00-16:00 Tantek & Aaron getting AVOPs overview for streaming/recording Vidyo in rooms (at MozPDX/"AVOPs")
  • ...



What

  • Tantek Çelik
    • What did we think we did right / better / worse compared to last year?
    • What did we leave open / unresolved from 2016/Organizers?
    • What new community challenges have we encountered since?
    • What are the most important things we can do to improve the community in the coming uyear?
    • Which of those are the easiest / most scalable?
  • Remaining/ongoing tasks from 2016/Organizers#Task_List
    • Home page
      • Move events content from home page to events.indieweb.org or for the time being, /events
      • Make the content appropriate for the next generation of people that we want to attract
      • Make sure home page is still personable, has photos, shows community
  • ...

Where

Breakfast: offsite smoothie / acai bowl place

Organizers Summit meeting: Mozilla Portland (which conference room)

Lunch after: salad place nearby

Photos

The Organizers on call (not all pictured)

Out for lunch at Prasad Cuisine

Aaron is VJing

Marty is Podcasting

Notes

Sessions

If you will be participating in the Day 0 Organizers Summit, please add your session ideas here with name, hashtag, and session idea name. Please add nested list-items with "+1 yourname" for sessions you want to participate in!

See Last Year's Sessions for ideas.


2016 Next Time

From: 2016/Organizers#Next_Time

  • "goodie bags" for organizers with things like:
    • packets of stickers (e.g. with the new logo, microformats, webmention, etc.) for handing out at their next HWC meetups or IWCs.
  • ...

Interested

Discussion Channels

Tantek Çelik: Last year we decided to formalize expanding the set of #indieweb discussion channels, shall we add more this year?

Interested

Existing channels summary

  • #indieweb - general user-centric discussion bridged with Slack #???
  • #indieweb-dev - developer specific discussion, implementation/protocols/formats/plumbing focused things bridged with Slack #dev
    • Wiki edits also go here
  • #indiechat - existing informal not deliberately logged channel
  • #indieweb-chat - informal channel bridged with Slack #chat

Other Freenode channels logged by Loqi because they're symbiotic with the #indieweb community:

  • #microformats
  • #bridgy
  • #knownchat

New channels we considered but decided (as of 2016/Organizers) not to grow to yet:

  • #indieweb-wordpress - WordPress-specific both user-support, and IndieWeb Pluging / Core development related. Currently happens in #indieweb-dev for the part, sometimes starting with a user problem in #indieweb, turning into a plugin config/code discussion, then migrating to -dev.
  • #indieweb-meta - discussion about the channels, the community, etc. For now much of this happens in -dev or -chat, sometimes in #indieweb if it's high level enough.
  • #indieweb-offtopic - alias for #indieweb-chat
  • #indieweb-random - alias for #indieweb-chat

Which new channels? Which of these (if any) would it make sense to introduce?

  • #indieweb-wordpress
    • +1 Tantek Çelik: there have been a number of times that WordPress-specific conversation (especially when it dives into plugin details) has dominated #indieweb and/or #indieweb-dev. I think we've reached a good critical mass of IndieWeb WordPress to provide a place where IndieWeb WordPress folks can feel more free to discuss without worrying that they may be imposing on others in the community who don't use WordPress. Also the IndieWeb Slack already has a #wordpress channel (created by WordPress community member  Matthias Pfefferle that is just not yet bridged to #indieweb-wordpress on IRC.
    • +1 Ben Roberts: I feel like #indieweb has had a lot of wordpress specific discussion over the last few months and it definitely feels like a good point to add bridging.
    • +1 Marty McGuire: there's plenty enough WP-specific developer-y discussion to warrant its own channel.
    • +1 Aaron Parecki:
      • People have been using the #wordpress Slack channel to have wordpress-specific conversations already, as recently as May 31/June 1st.
      • There have been several times I've been confused about the discussion in -dev because people were saying "Micropub" when they were actually talking about the Wordpress plugin with that name rather than the spec. Seeing things like "Micropub doesn't support X" in the -dev channel is bad when what's actually being talked about is the Wordpress plugin, since the conversation lacks the context of Wordpress and other people reading it may not know that they're talking about the specific implementation.
    • +1 Sven Knebel
    • +1 Martijn van der Ven: after discussing with tantek I can see his reasoning for giving the WP Indie community their own discussion space, both as a way of giving support (onboarding) new users and as a tool for selling them on the idea (“look we have a channel for you!”). I do still think that WP dev discussions can be kept on the regular -dev.
    • +1 David Mead: As a #wordpress and #indieweb user this would be a great resource for me
    • +1 Pelle Wessman: I think this would be a good change that makes it easier for the WP-subcommunity to push their work further. Just like any dev-specific talk is transferred from #indieweb to #indieweb-dev I think care will be taken to transfer any non-wp talk to #indieweb and #indieweb-dev and with public logs it will be easy for those in there to read up on any relevant discussion in #indieweb-wordpress prior to such a transfer
    • -1 Peter Molnar: this will lead separate WP users from #indieweb; also unneeded until WP has in-core indieweb capabilities. I'd postpone it till then.
  • ...

#indiechat and #indieweb-chat?

  • #indiechat is (officially) totally unlogged, #indieweb-chat is archived as long as the slack archive goes. Right now both have distinct set of users in them (#indiechat has more IRC users, #indieweb-chat of course potentially all slack users), which means you kind of have to pick which half to talk to, which is not ideal. Merge them by closing #indiechat and redirecting it to #indieweb-chat?
  • The scrollback on the Slack-bridged #indieweb-chat is 10,000 lines (as per Aaron, 2017-06-14), spanning several days of off-the-record chatting. Ben Roberts pointed out in chat that “slack limits how much they show if you are unpaid, they log everything” “so that you can pay to get back all the log history”. See the default message retention in the Slack FAQ. This means a permanent log exists somewhere.
    • +1 gRegor Morrill I'm in favor of merging/redirecting to #indie-chat. Perhaps some advance notice that the channel will soon be logged in Slack, up to Slack's free archive limit.
    • +0 Ben Roberts As cited above, slack logs all history on all slack channels unless you pay them to let you change the retention options. I can see people having issues with this. That said, it can also get confusing having two chats that serve the same purpose.
    • +0 Peter Molnar I agree it should be merged, I don't, however, like the scrollback option.
    • +0 Pelle Wessman: I do think they should be merged, but I do like the fact that #indiechat have no public logs whatsoever


#indieweb-meta

  • discussion about the channels, the community, etc. For now much of this happens in -dev or -chat, sometimes in #indieweb if it's high level enough.
    • -1 gRegor Morrill I don't think this is needed; I'm fine with using -chat or -dev.
    • Sven Knebel confused about reference to -dev, in my view this stuff belongs primarily the main channel, or -chat if intentionally hidden from logs.
    • -1 Peter Molnar -dev is enough.
    • -1 Pelle Wessman: The existing channels are enough for these discussions and also a good fit for these discussions – at least for now

new channel for wiki edits

  • The wiki edits can be kind of noisy especially when there is a conversation happening. Would it make sense to have a special channel for wiki edits?
  • Should this include other notifications as well, such as tweets, webmentions, websub notifications, etc?
    • ±0 gRegor Morrill: I feel like I would just ignore such a channel since it just becomes a feed of Special:RecentChanges with no discussion. In general the noise from these in -dev hasn't bothered me yet.
    • ±0 Sebastiaan Andeweg: Since an #indieweb-meta channel is also under consideration, it might be nice to combine the wiki-edits and/or tweets into the #meta channel. Especially the wiki-edits are not really #dev.
    • +0 Pelle Wessman: A channel like #indieweb-logs that could collect the verbosest of the logs could enable us to log even more stuff as it wouldn't interfere with any discussions. Although wiki-edits should probably remain in the current channels, eg. some extension of Twitter mentions or Superfeedr mentions could make sense in a bot-driven #indieweb-logs channel
    • -1 Peter Molnar please don't make this many channels, we already have enough with 3.

HWC Organizing

HWC is a specific events organizing use-case that's worth discussing / solving before the global events discussion.

Proposer: Tantek Çelik

Interested:

Problems we should solve:

  • Late to announce cities
  • Late to cancel cities
  • Late to post indie events
  • Late to post silo events (FB, Meetup)

Possible solutions:

  • Figure out what are the *actual* dependably regular cities (dependably biweekly / monthly for 2 months with photos each time?)
    • Vs. the occasional ones (popups)
    • Vs. the still getting started ones (emerging?)
    • 💬 Martijn van der Ven: Possibly clean-up Homebrew Website Club list together during this session, now that several organisers are on call.
  • Only list the dependably reliable regular cities on the event day pages by default
    • This ensures a newly created HWC day page is never empty!
    • if 99%+ same venue at that city, then no TBD, just include venue automatically
      • = less work for reliable cities that have a predictable fixed venue!
      • = no empty HWC page by default
    • else put venue as TBD
      • 💬 Martijn van der Ven: I prefer TBA. TBD (to me) sounds like the event’s happening is yet to be determined, but only committed events should be on the list anyway. Only venue is left to be announced.
  • Comment out popups on event day pages
  • Do not list "getting started" by default at all
  • Friday before the Wednesday:
    • Have events confirmed so they will be included in the IndieWeb newsletter.
    • What to do if an event has been confirmed but location is still TBA? Probably include in newsletter, but what would the deadline for the location be?
  • Organisers who would rather not work on the wiki should communicate their events to someone else. Possibly appoint a single person.

Events Organizing

Let's discuss how to improve how we organize IndieWeb related events, including in particular a/the website for events.

Interested

New Events Website?

  • Aaron Parecki: We've had some discussions about how to make it easier to create and manage the websites for our regular events. There are many options, some of which are noted below.
    • Upcoming - notes on using our own instance of Upcoming for our events
    • use our own instance of Calagator
    • build something new??
    • ...
  • More notes: brainstorming

Incremental Improvements?

  • Tantek Çelik: Alternatively, short of requiring a bunch of new software, sites, domains etc., what can we do incrementally to improve our events organizing?
  • Tantek Çelik: What are the current problems / pain points?
    • Creating new HWC pages - currently gRegor Morrill ends up creating / cloning most new HWC pages (or another admin), and that's a bunch of manual work.
      • We might be able to streamline this when we have a clear idea of what to include on those pages by default. (As per HWC Organizing.) Then maybe have a meta page somewhere that includes the defaults for quick copying purposes and nothing else?
    • Creating new IWC pages - currently an organizer for an IWC ends up creating the page(s) for a new IWC, and sometimes that results in errant copy/pasta (from an old previous page?) which then frustrates others.
      • E.g. the 2017/Düsseldorf page and 2017/Düsseldorf/Guest_List pages mention signing-up as an "apprentice" if you don't have your own site, and this was brought up during the 2017 Düsseldorf "#onboarding" session (see video recording) by Jeremy Keith and Joschi Kuphal as a problem, when ironically the "main" IndieWebCamp(s) (e.g. IndieWebSummit 2016 and others) have not mentioned "apprentice" in over a year. None of them noticed that so clearly there is a disconnect even among organizers.
        • Some event page changes gets discussed and iterated quickly via chat, but not all organizers are in chat as regularly, so it's easy to not be in-the-loop. Perhaps we need to capture more of these changes in "How To" sections on the wiki so current practices are easier to find. gRegor Morrill 19:04, 5 June 2017 (PDT)
    • Updating Events is a pain
    • Updating Sidebar is a pain, tricky (different syntax than other pages), and limited (bottlenecked) to wiki admins

Some events seem to avoid the wiki

  • HWC Brussels has never been on a HWC page on the wiki, but has announced events on their own website.
  • HWC Fort Collins communicates through a Facebook group.
  • HWC Berlin is/was working on their own page, and has a meetup group, which is responsible for most visitors outside the "core" group of organizers.

The argument often being that the wiki is well suited for the core-members of the movement, but ill suited for onboarding and attracting people outside of Generation 1.

  • If Sven Knebel remembers correctly, Jeremy Keith and Joschi Kuphal said in that Twitter/Facebook are the main channels for them to actually reach participants.
  • 💬 Martijn van der Ven: maybe the wiki should be treated more as “the canonical list” than as the home for these events?

Site Refresh

Tantek Çelik: Last year 2016 we discussed a major site-update and completed at least part of it for the start of the main IndieWebSummit! Followed up with a larger update on 2016-07-04.

Shall we do another site refresh? Or at least parts thereof?

Interested

Home page

  • Consider what do other community / standards sites provide on their home page, and do we see things there that resonate or otherwise indicate areas we could improve our own home page? (and then list them below this site list) E.g.:
  • mission statement Do we need one? (see above examples) Do we already have one? (if so, mission statement should explicitly state it and expand upon it)
  • short intro video nearly every other such "modern" community or project has a short video intro embedded directly on their home page. we could use that, but we may want something a bit more properly edited / finessed than just a talk recording.
  • ... more suggested changes to the homepage based on comparative analysis with other sites

About

  • Similar to home page but perhaps expands upon the community identity etc.? E.g. see:

Events

  • Already covered by a separate session just for this.

People

  • Currently new folks in the community are presented with a bunch of different places to "add themselves" and this can either be tiresome, or a good introduction to various technologies, or maybe some of both? (accidental design). How can we make this deliberate one way or another? E.g. focus on simplicity, usability, or explicit "exercises" to help teach wiki editing or whatever else helps people contribute to the community more effectively. Current places / things for people in rough order that they're asked to create/edit them on IRC:
    1. irc-people
    2. Their User: page
    3. sparkline user template (e.g. {{t}} for Tantek Çelik)
    • others?

Projects

  • Projects still needs a massive update. How do we make this happen so that it's useful for both newcomers and existing community members of as many Generations as possible?

Getting Started

  • Getting Started can be a make or break page for new people discovering the community; how can we make this page as easy / simple / accessible as possible with clear(er) instructions and explanations of the benefits of each thing we recommend people do?

Other types of pages?

  • What other types of pages need help / improvements?

More Logos

Tantek Çelik: Would it be useful to have new logos for various IndieWeb things, building blocks etc.? (more stickers, etc.)

Interested

  • Tantek Çelik
  • Aaron Parecki
  • Shane Becker - via aaronpk since shaners may or may not be able to come but has expressed interest in this project
  • David Shanske - has been looking for someone to help create logos for the WordPress plugins as wordpress.org displays logos.
  • Marty McGuire
  • ... add yourself if you're interested in a session about this

E.g. which of these?

Community Repos

  • David Shanske would like to discuss how to decide what belongs in the community repositories and how projects here should develop. Currently, these host things like the WordPress Indieweb plugin and various mf2 parsers.
    • +1 Peter Molnar - we now have some relatively large projects, especially for WordPress, which needs more people to be their maintainers

Code of Conduct Review

While reviewing our code of conduct and others, I realized others have concrete steps and contact info for addressing CoC violations, such as an email address or phone number to report to. e.g. Mozilla's Community Participation Guidelines that they asked us to abide by for IndieWeb Summit has a "Reporting" section.

Interested


prep for keynotes tomorrow

Aaron Parecki: We should spend a little time prepping/rehearsing for keynote demos the next morning, to make sure the demos are snappy and to the point and don't take up a ton of the morning time. Last year I think we were a little too rambly in the morning without making a clear point.

future meetings

Aaron Parecki: we should discuss what it might look like to have more regular meetings like this, potentially even completely online, because:

  • there is a very long list of sessions here, and it's likely we won't have time to go in depth on everything
  • we've been talking about things like the chat channels for months without feeling like we can do anything about it until this meeting
  • most of the participants here are remote anyway

session name

Timebox: MM min. (assume 30min by default)

PROPOSER(S): SUMMARY

  • DETAILS

Discussion

When?

  • Morning of 2017-06-23, because:
    • morning = remote participation with European organizers
    • the "before lunch" time is particularly effective at having a high-cognitive-functioning focused meetup to decide on "hard questions" of community and such
    • ok to skip the intro/session proposal time of OSBridge barcamp day since we'll be doing two days of indieweb sessions that weekend and don't need to propose any new ones to OSBridge)
    • break for lunch / random leader bonding activity
    • afternoon: optional OSBridge barcamp day
    • afternoon: or just enjoy Portland outdoors in the sunshine


Options: (please note your opinions/thoughts below!)

  • 9:00-13:30, get your own breakfast beforehand (ok to bring in)
  • 8:00-12:30, kick it off with a DIY veggie breakfast taco bar

TBD:

Task List

  • Discussion channels
    • add bridged -meta
    • keep wiki edits in -dev
    • add bridged -wordpress
    • update #indiechat topic to direct people to #indie-chat
  • Logos
    • consensus they're a good idea
    • need to be well-designed, consistent
    • used in footers of websites, github, icons, stickers
  • Community Repos
    • new criteria for moving in (and possibly moving out) repos to (and from) the indieweb org repo on GitHub
    • have adaptable thresholds for projects that might need the extra nudge (and that do not allow much plurality anyway) like WP plugins
    • aaronpk will look at his repos and possibly move things out. Put out a call to others to look at their repos to?
  • organize next iterations on Nov 3 (before IWC Berlin)

See Also

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