From IndieWeb

The Organizers Summit is a half-day of activities and sessions before IndieWeb Summit 2018, for everyone who has co-organized an IndieWebCamp in the past two years or at least two Homebrew Website Club meetups with at least one meetup photo.


Similar to 2017/Organizers, the Organizers Summit sessions are open to everyone who has co-organized an IndieWebCamp from 2015-2018, planning an IndieWebCamp later this year, or co-organized at least two Homebrew Website Club meetups during those years, and posted at least one meetup photo. If you’re not sure, ask an organizer.


Please add yourself below if you will be participating in the Organizers Summit (alphabetical by full name)

Remote Participation

If you can't make it in person but you're available to participate remotely, please add yourself below. Please note that we'll likely make use of Mozilla's remote conference setup, which requires the Vidyo Desktop Client. The link to join the live chat will be at https://2018.indieweb.org/vidyo

  • Martijn van der Ven
  • Calum Ryan
  • Peter Molnar (might be problematic though due to potential hotel wifi issues)
  • Eddie Hinkle (might not be able to attend the full-time, but I'd like to attend when possible)
  • {{kevinmarks} (will connect from the office, may be interrupted)
  • ...


Sorry to miss you, let us know if you can't make it and we'll try to reach out with specifics that may apply to your city.


KURE Promise.
Good enough for breakfast, good enough for IndieWeb!
  • Monday June 25, 9am Pacific Time
    • 2018-06-25 09:00 - 13:30 PDT (UTC-7)
    • 2018-06-25 16:00 - 20:30 UTC
    • 2018-06-25 18:00 - 22:30 CEST (UTC+2)


Monday 2018-06-25:

  • 08:15 Organizers breakfast at Kure Juice Bar, 408 SW 12th Ave (at SW Stark)
  • 09:00 Organizers Summit (LS) start & intros
  • 09:30 Organizers Summit Sessions
  • 13:00 Organizers Summit Wrap-up & Next Steps
  • 13:30 Organizers Summit closes and
  • 13:37 lunch outside and free time
    • ...

Other Organizers related activities (just FYI, unless you want to help)

  • ...


  • Tantek Çelik
    • What did we think we did right / better / worse compared to last year?
    • What did we leave open / unresolved from 2017/Organizers?
    • What new community challenges have we encountered since?
    • What are the most important things we can do to improve the community in the coming uyear?
    • Which of those are the easiest / most scalable?
  • Remaining/ongoing tasks from 2017/Organizers#Task_List
    • Home page
      • Move events content from home page to events.indieweb.org or for the time being, /events
      • Make the content appropriate for the next generation of people that we want to attract
      • Make sure home page is still personable, has photos, shows community
  • ...


08:00 Breakfast: KURE (Foursquare: Kure Juice Bar), 408 SW 12th Ave (at SW Stark)

09:00-13:30 Organizers Summit meeting: Mozilla Portland! (PDX-3-320 Hair of the Dog, has Vidyo)

13:37 Lunch after: TBD offsite

Local Participants

Remote Participants


Ideas from this page and from Organizers#Issues were listed in the etherpad and then sessions were put in a rough priority, or given an explicit time slot.

Proposed from this page

  1. CoC
    • CoC Review and Designated Contacts for Chat
    • Designate CoC Contacts for IWS
  2. GitHub Community Management and Overlap
  3. IndieWeb principles split and reorg
  4. IndieWeb Community Infrastructure (aaronpk)
    • Re-evaluate sponsorship policy (aaronpk)
    • reduce chat noise (jgmac1106)
    • Rename IRC People (gRegorLove)
  5. Diversity & Inclusion
    • parent / kid friendliness
    • travel assistance - tantek
  • 11:30 Photo with remote attendees!
  • 13:00 prep for keynotes tomorrow (aaronpk, tantek)

Proposed from Organizers

  • 15min Future Meetings - zegnat
  • 5min Discussion Channels - gwg
  • microformats2 parser/issues session (tantek added to /2018/Schedule suggestions)


For each session, the original notes/ideas are listed first. The discussion from the Organizers Summit and resulting actions are listed under the discussion subheading for each session.

GitHub Community Management and Overlap

When: 2018-06-25 10:00

Proposer: Martijn van der Ven

  1. There is currently an odd overlap between the GitHub organisations microformats and indieweb.
  2. It is also unclear how people can join the IndieWeb organisation in the first place.

Organizers Summit Discussion

  • Someone made the indieweb org a long time ago and invited everyone they could think of as an admin, so lots of those people don't really know they are a member anyway
  • Proposal: David Shanske: moving parsers into microformats org makes sense
  • Tantek Çelik: mf2 helpers have been pretty indieweb-specific so maybe they should stay under indieweb org


It is also unclear how people can join the IndieWeb organisation in the first place.

Can we solidify some sort of guidelines?

  • What does it mean to be an owner of the org?
    • This should be a small set of people because owners have lots of power over the org configuration.
    • Aaron Parecki suggests: go through existing list of owners and drop them down to member unless they are a "leader"
  • What does it mean to be a member?
    • anyone who wants to push code to an IndieWeb repo should be allowed to become a member
    • we should make it so that any member can write to any repo (e.g. push to master, accept PRs, ...)
      • this may be complicated w/ GitHub's Teams per-repo configuration requirements
  • What is the bar for leaving?
    • owner-to-member was answered above
    • no current pressure to remove members

CoC Review and Designated Contacts for Chat

When: 2018-06-25 10:35

Proposer: Martijn van der Ven

This session could be combined with a general discussion going through previously raised issues and feedback. As for the reason of this proposal:

Recently Martijn van der Ven was contacted by someone who felt another community member in the chat had gone beyond what would be respectable per the Code of Conduct. This brought up a number of interesting things:

  1. They contacted me because they see me around a lot, and had seen I was online at the time of the incident. It is possible they also went and contacted other “leaders”. Without a central contact or a side-channel for leaders to discuss these issues, I have no way of knowing.
  2. Because of how the IndieWeb chat is used asynchronously a lot of the time, the parties involved were not online at the same time. This means that the “Resolve Peacefully” and “Apologize for Mistakes” sections are a lot harder to effectively apply. This is definitely the CoC falling short (in Martijn van der Ven’s humble opinion) and its base in physical events shows.

    Recently there was a little thing in the chat where someone made their displeasure known about something, and Tantek Çelik urged the two parties to talk it out and use the unlogged #indieweb-chat. (Paraphrasing as I can’t find it in the logs right now.) This is the CoC getting applied well, but only worked because at that time the chat was being used synchronously.


  • Martijn van der Ven — I would like to specifically take a moment to discuss what methods we “leaders” (or the appointed CoC contacts for chat) should use to resolve conflicts smoothly and expeditiously. Especially how to do this without blowing every issue into the wide open for everyone to see and comment on.
  • Add yourself here… (see this for more details)

Designate CoC Contacts for IWS Proposer: Aaron Parecki

We should offer people a number of possible contact points in case they feel any Code of Conduct breach has taken place.


Organizers Summit Discussion

In-Person Points of Contact for CoC Issues
  • David Shanske: All attendees of Organizers Summit okay with being in-person contacts?
  • Aaron Parecki: we all look alike, so we should have more diverse points of contact. will ask organizer of Women Who Code.
    • we should have ~4 points of contact.

Aaron Parecki - how this works:

  • start of day - all contacts will be identified as contacts
  • contacts must be familier with the CoC and related procedures
  • contacts should provide phone # (assuming they have one) and email address they will monitor for more private communications
  • in later discussion it was suggested Jean MacDonald should be an in-person contact for 2018.
Remote Points of Contact for CoC Issues
  • contact form that goes to ... ?
    • Martijn van der Ven: offer separate contact info for organizers and contacts, so reporter can choose who to contact.
    • Tantek Çelik: sounds like extra IndieWeb Community Infrastructure (separate topic)
    • we talked ourselves out of this. better to offer personal points of contact.

For issues in the community virtual spaces (IRC):

  • Aaron Parecki: anyone should feel empowered to discuss issues happening in the community (e.g. someone feels attacked). we want to curb behaviors that lead to someone feeling attacked, and that requires talking to the person who is the source of the behavior.
  • Martijn van der Ven: feels more comfortable starting a conversation about issues if listed as a point of contact.
    • Tantek Çelik I've seen such "lists" just devolve into useless threads and bikeshedding. From experience, I think using lists for such "soft" topics is an anti-pattern (makes the problem more likely worse than better)
  • Aaron Parecki Code of Conduct page should have a "what to do if you experience a CoC violation" which includes a list of people who can be contacted. if you are contacted about a CoC violation - you don't have to be on the list to handle the issue.
  • gRegor Morrill: points of contact should make sure their wiki user page links ways to contact them outside of chat.


IndieWeb principles split and reorg

When: 2018-06-25 11:05

Proposer: Greg McVerry, 2018-04-18 [1]

  • in order to have more inclusive, gen2-3-4 friendly indieweb descriptions, the idea to reorganize the principles had come up, starting from most gen4 oriented downwards to gen1 oriented.
    • Tantek Çelik: Start more modest, just rephrasing to be inclusive of gen2. Then get gen2 folks to help write a gen3 friendly version. It is highly unlikely that gen1 folks will be able to write effectively for gen3+ (too different a perspective).


Organizers Summit Discussion

Session goal: re-word the principles in a way that incrementally more accessible.

Greg McVerry: The IndieWeb Community is based on principles that define our efforts to unite people on an independent web where we all network from our own websites and blogs. The 11 principles below allow us all to own our data, take control of our identity, and stay connected with like minded people. simpler intro draft:

Greg McVerry: The IndieWeb Community is based on principles including: own your data, experience is more important than protocols, make thing for yourself first, document your stuff, build tools for yourself, plurality over monoculture, and remember to have fun!

Discussion on "Use visible data" - which can cover many meanings

  • Marty McGuire: not clear what "machines" are being talked about
  • accessibility (e.g. readable text)
  • publish for people to read, not for search engines
  • don't put public data behind paywalls, loginwalls, clickwalls
  • Tantek Çelik: Own your data. Your content, your metadata, your identity.
  • Tantek Çelik: "Use and publish visible data"

Publish public information where it's viewable, not behind a paywall, clickwall, or social network login.

Publish for People.-We are all makers and creative by nature. Good content matters more than any like or Search Engine. When publishing your content make sure it is readable and accessible to the widest audience possible. This means publishing to your own website rather than just a social network where you need a sign in. Publishing for people also requires us to consider accessibility differences when choosing colors and images.

Document your stuff. You have made a place to share and speak your mind. When you publish content or build tools fit is helpful to share your story of the steps you take. Others will benefit, including your future self

  • "You've built a..." change to "You've made a..."

Share your stuff. IndieWeb is an open source community. While you decide how to share what you make using an openly licesne other people can get on the indie web quicker and easier.

Re-visit this as perennial topic and ongoing in chat / wiki edits

IndieWeb Community Infrastructure

When: 2018-06-25 12:??

  • Re-evaluate sponsorship policy (aaronpk)
  • reduce chat noise (jgmac1106)
  • Rename IRC People (gRegorLove)
Re-evaluate sponsorship policy

Proposer: Aaron Parecki, 2018-04-19 [2]

  • Currently we have a bunch of links in the footer from hosts from several years ago. Might want to consider a more formal/strict policy of when those fall off the page and are only shown on the specific event page.


Organizers Summit Discussion
  • Aaron Parecki: we have sponsors in our site footer that sponsored years ago. what if we rotated out everyone who hasn't sponsored an event in ~12 months?
  • Tantek Çelik: 3 years? this is a good marketing opportunity to show off big name sponsors. what is the downside to having big name sponsors?
    • noticed a weird padding difference in his browser btwn footer on home page vs e.g. on /2018/Organizers
    • Aaron Parecki: big name sponsors on the homepage have no downside. small names or companies that have shut down...
    • Tantek Çelik: remove companies immediately if they shut down
  • Aaron Parecki: language also needs to clarify that IndieWebCamp *events* - not the (non-existent) IndieWeb organization - are sponsored.
  • Tantek Çelik: sponsorship gets you 1 year on the page for sure. 3 years becomes gray area. if a sponsor begins to exhibit unfriendly behavior against our principles, we can decide they don't reflect that. another trigger: upon acquisition, re-evaluate if the parent company is a good match.
  • Aaron Parecki: actually sent an email to a sponsor after a year and was rejected. Tantek Çelik: after a year, upon a rejection, those should be dropped.
  • Aaron Parecki: without strong rules, we should set up times to review.
  • Tantek Çelik: perennial Organizers summit session to review.
  • Tantek Çelik: order by most recent. Greg McVerry: biggest check? Tantek Çelik: by year, then contribution value within year?
  • Tantek Çelik: where are the opencollective supporters? Aaron Parecki: they're on the event page, could be here.

Mini-review happened.

reduce chat noise
  • there's been complaints that there's too much bot chatter in channels
  • Aaron Parecki optimized Loqi in some instances, only creating one chat line for edits etc
  • Sven Knebel will hide some of Kajas edits
  • multiline-tweets can be big (often happens with Tantek Çelik's tweets, due to his posting style)
  • POSSE-copies appear: recently regularly tweet, POSSE-copy to medium via superfeedr and original post via superfeedr appear - original post discovery would be interesting, but potentially tricky work
  • tweets containing multiple trigger-words get sent to multiple channels
  • it has been suggested to move (some of?) the notifications to a dedicated channel (#indieweb-firehose?)
Organizers Summit Discussion

Action: Aaron Parecki will make an incremental improvement, de-duping notifications by having them only go to the "more specific" channel. e.g. a tweet w/ #indieweb and #webmention would go to #indieweb-dev, not #indieweb.

Rename IRC People

Redirect IRC People to something less about chat plumbing?

I like that we've moved away from linking "IRC" in pages and instead use "discuss". To go along with that, it seems like this page should follow suit. "Chat people" sounds hokey, but maybe something like "Chat community," "Discussion community," or similar. Possible issue: ensure the chat.indieweb.org logs follow the redirect. gRegor Morrill 15:11, 2 January 2018 (PST)

Martijn van der Ven: [3] to encourage edits maybe some copy rewriting needs to be done to that page. The name “chat community” (by gRegor) makes sense to me, so the page could be made a bit more community oriented rather than technical?

Organizers Summit Discussion

Action: gRegor Morrill will change it to "Chat Names"

Discussion Channels

When: 2018-06-25 12:40

Proposer: David Shanske

Originally noted by Martijn van der Ven on Organizers#Issues 2018-05-01 [4]

Previous Organizers Summit session

which channel for WordPress development

  • There has been a little discussion about this again lately. As the appeal of the WordPress plugins is growing, more non-gen1 people turn up to #-wordpress looking for help setting things up. To not alienate these people, development talk has shifted back into #-dev.
  • User support is nice in #-wordpress, as the main channel is mostly active with gen1-type people on their own custom workflows who can be of little help to WordPress setups. The people who do run WordPress are probably in #-wordpress and happy to help there.
  • WordPress plugin development, especially if multiple devs are online, can quickly fill up all of #-dev. This was one of the original reasons there was a fork into #-wordpress: 2017/Organizers#Discussion_Channels so we should stick with that. If there's a need for separate WP channels for WP users vs WP devs, we can consider that.

Organizers Summit Discussion

Action: update discuss (?), #indieweb-wordpress channel topic, and other pages to clarify that WordPress users *and* WordPress-related dev discussion happen in #indieweb-wordpress.

Diversity and Inclusion

When: 2018-06-25 12:45

Organizers Summit Discussion

  • Goal: by next year let's have better representation in this room.
  • Marty McGuire need more organizers.
  • Tantek Çelik leaders are going to reflect the community
  • Greg McVerry accessible path from participant, to organizer, to leader
  • Greg McVerry encourage Comp Sci programs to host HWC at smaller not top tier uni's
  • Calum Ryan look into codebar approaches and contacts (London/Brighton) very successful in regards to participation of under-respresented
  • Marty McGuire encourage more HWC organizers to customize HWC for themselves and their communities
  • Aaron Parecki micro.blog is doing a great job at this. consult with Jean MacDonald and Manton Reece for advice!
  • Greg McVerry dangerous to say that we need to engage with gen2/3 to get a diverse community, suggests that we can't have a diverse gen1 community, which isn't true.
  • Greg McVerry - any post where we publicly set diversity goals.
    • Tantek Çelik - first indiewebcamp was ~25% women, there is a post that contrasts this with federated social web summit.
    • gRegor Morrill - we have a diversity page with resources, but not data.
    • Aaron Parecki - has publishing about diversity goals for a community worked? Tantek Çelik - we should adopt things that are known to work
  • Tantek Çelik - have had leaders that have dropped out. kongaloosh, Amy Guy, Crystal. as far as we know none were pushed out by issues of community.
    • David Shanske engagement and retention are things we should talk about in the future.
  • Tantek Çelik - travel fund - we had enough for a person! one person applied, but we got back to them too late and they had a schedule conflict come up.
    • Aaron Parecki - when they applied we didn't have enough in the fund, but we would have guaranteed it
    • Greg McVerry - i have worked with orgs that fundraise in 2017 for scholarships for 2018.
    • Tantek Çelik we have had successful travel fund use in the past.
    • Greg McVerry - applications for travel assistance need to go out 6 months before an event for e.g. visa applications.
  • Aaron Parecki - more planning and advance notice needed
    • venue was confirmed 3 months before the event, needs to be much further in advance.
    • this is part of not being an actual organization.
  • Sven Knebel - is there a travel fund team or is each IWC organizer responsible for their own? Tantek Çelik, Aaron Parecki currently the latter.

Action: finalize dates and venue in January for the next IWS to leave time for travel assistance applications, time for applicants to also apply for visas and book flights.

  • another suggestion: IWS on weekends again? taking time off on weekdays can hurt D&I. we'll know more after this IWS.
  • ACTION: Aaron Parecki - reflect on retention from Day 1 to Day 2 on Tuesday => Wednesday compared to past dropouts on Sat/Sun.

prep for keynotes tomorrow

When: 2018-06-25 13:10

Proposer: Aaron Parecki

Aaron Parecki: We should spend a little time prepping/rehearsing for keynote demos the next morning, to make sure the demos are snappy and to the point and don't take up a ton of the morning time. Last year I think we were a little too rambly in the morning without making a clear point.

gRegor Morrill: Review 2018/Introduction and make sure it covers everything. See typical IWC introduction list in HTML comments on the page.


Organizers Summit Discussion

Keynotes from 2018/Schedule

  • What is the IndieWeb - Aaron Parecki -
  • State of the IndieWeb - Tantek Çelik
  • Micro.blog Community and Progress - Jean MacDonald Manton Reece
  • The Next Wave of IndieWeb: Readers - Aaron Parecki Jonathan LaCour
  • Imagining the Future - William Hertling, author of Kill Process
  • big things that happened:
  • Community Updates
    • IndieAuth plugin for WordPress is new for the indieweb
    • Modern Readers were a session last year, Together conceived, Microsub discussions started, Aperture, Indigneous built
  • Micro.blog year two: more IndieWeb support and community since - Jean and Manton will speak to it
    • introduce Jean and Manton and hand it over

Firming up hosting the morning.

https://indieweb.org/2018/Baltimore/Building_Blocks - presentation-ified wiki page that Aaron Parecki used at IWC Baltimore.


  • Aaron Parecki "What is the IndieWeb?"
  • Tantek Çelik "State of the IndieWeb", leading into guest keynotes.
  • Marty McGuire Collect intros from people in IRC and etherpad and present them quickly at the end of personal site intros
    • name
    • URL
    • what do you want to demo?
      • URL to show
      • short description

Task List

Note the tasks coming out of sessions.

  • Document: jf2 spec is on indieweb, so makes sense for the code to live in same org as the spec - so we don't move it.
  • CoC contacts: Leaders willing to be points of contact should add themselves (including local timezone) to code-of-conduct#Resolving_an_Issue
    • Make sure your wiki user page has contact information as well
  • reduce chat noise: Aaron Parecki will make an incremental improvement, de-duping notifications by having them only go to the "more specific" channel. e.g. a tweet w/ #indieweb and #webmention would go to #indieweb-dev, not #indieweb.
  • Finalize dates and venue in January 2019 for the next IWS to leave time for travel assistance applications, time for applicants to also apply for visas and book flights.
  • Aaron Parecki: reflect on retention from Day 1 to Day 2 on Tuesday => Wednesday compared to past dropouts on Sat/Sun.
  • ...


Next Time

These topics were suggested but did not get discussed at this Organizers Summit.

They were re-added to the Organizers#Issues at 2019/Organizers for re-processing, starting with:

Left here purely for historical reasons.

non-profit organization

Proposer: Aaron Parecki

Aaron Parecki: As the community grows, having a formal organization could benefit us in a few ways. There has been some talk in chat of a "bug bounty" program or having a fund to support individual projects. While I don't think IndieWeb itself should become a formal organization, there is definitely an opportunity for other individuals to form adjacent organizations to handle things. Greg McVerry: I am applying for federal grants and there wasn't an organization or person I could point to or include.


  • Ruby Together "Ruby Together is a grassroots initiative committed to supporting the critical Ruby infrastructure you rely on"
  • Open Together "A system for Open Source

related discussion:


Establish an IWC/training for University with Domains of Owns One Projects

Proposer: Greg McVerry,

  • Greg McVerry: There are a number of college administrators who have contacted us about trying to include IndieWeb into their Domain projects. David Shanske and Chris Aldrich through around the idea of an IWC for this audience. May just want to think about a: are we ready? b: best approach to help.

IndieWeb Community Infrastructure

Proposer: Martijn van der Ven

Currently the IndieWeb (as an organisation) is using several services, but it is not always clear who to contact about which part. It may be good to compile a list of third-parties that are depended upon, and who the contacts are for those.

Possible discussion points, taken from the running issues:

  • What services are essential for running the IndieWeb community resources, and who has access to them?
    • Content
    • Domain name(s)
      • Who has access to indieweb.org, can configure the DNS, etc?
      • How can access to these be split amongst several people?
    • Communication
      • Who can manage the Slack server / channels?
      • Who can manage the IRC channels?
        • It looks like we have several +o people. Are they all listed as Founders or equal on ChanServ?
        • all ops are in US timezones and thus not available on EU mornings (discussed 2017-12-17 due to small spam-wave on Freenode)
        • Is there anything to gain from registering with Freenode? (or has this been done already?)
      • Is there any managing we have to do for the Matrix bridge?
      • How quickly could a new Slack bridge be created if Loqi goes down? The bridge code is available on GitHub.
    • Official channels
    • For projects we depend on, e.g. the Slack bridge, should they be mirrored to the indieweb GitHub account? That way the community has them even if the original author decides the remove their repository.
    • Third parties we depend on? Can more of these be self-hosted?



2017 Next Time

From: 2017/Organizers#Task_List

  • Discussion channels
    • add bridged -meta
    • keep wiki edits in -dev
    • add bridged -wordpress
    • update #indiechat topic to direct people to #indieweb-chat
  • Logos
    • consensus they're a good idea
    • need to be well-designed, consistent
    • used in footers of websites, github, icons, stickers
  • Community Repos
    • new criteria for moving in (and possibly moving out) repos to (and from) the indieweb org repo on GitHub
    • have adaptable thresholds for projects that might need the extra nudge (and that do not allow much plurality anyway) like WP plugins
    • aaronpk will look at his repos and possibly move things out. Put out a call to others to look at their repos to?
  • organize next iterations on Nov 3 (before IWC Berlin)


  • ... add yourself if you're interested in a session about this

New ideas

If you will be participating in the Day 0 Organizers Summit, please add your session ideas here with name, hashtag, and session idea name. Please add nested list-items with "+1 yourname" for sessions you want to participate in!

See Last Year's Sessions or 2016 Sessions for ideas. The global Organizers page has a running list of issues, some of which are very long-standing.



  • Morning of 2018-06-25, because:
    • morning = remote participation with European leaders
    • the "before lunch" time is particularly effective at having a high-cognitive-functioning focused meetup to decide on "hard questions" of community and such
    • break for lunch / random leader bonding activity
    • afternoon: optional OSBridge barcamp day
    • afternoon: or just enjoy Portland outdoors in the sunshine

Options: (please note your opinions/thoughts below!)

  • 9:00-13:30, get your own breakfast beforehand (ok to bring in)
    • ...
  • 8:00-12:30, kick it off with a DIY veggie breakfast taco bar
    • ...


Photo of attending leaders The Organizers on call (not all pictured)

Missing: Out for lunch

See Also